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Ed’s 3 choices

January 8, 2012 1:12 pm

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I’m always wary of taking stories about Labour in the Mail at face value, but today there’s one that can’t be ignored – as Labour MPs now appear to be openly critical of Miliband’s leadership. Here are some quotes from Labour MPs in the Mail today (underlining is my own and for emphasis):

Graham Stringer:

“I don’t think on issues such as race we should look as hypocritical or as incompetent as Liverpool FC has done in the Luis Suarez case. Ed has got to get a grip and turn it around before the May elections.“

Meg Munn:

“Ed is not finished but he needs to be out there setting out some clear policies and strategies about where we go from here.”

Roger Godsiff:

“We need fresh thinking and to break with the old order economically. And we must do it with people who are credible with the electorate.”

Neither of these statements (taken at face value) are particularly controversial – the same has been said by Labour activists numerous times on LabourList and elsewhere – but it’s unlikely that Labour MPs talking to the most anti-Labour paper around in a week where Ed Miliband has been having difficulties won’t have seen how their remarks will be interpreted.

In response to this open discontent, Ed Miliband has three choices:

1. Call those MPs who are openly critical of his leadership in and tell them that such comments are not acceptable.

2. Call those MPs who are openly critical of his leadership in and assure them that he has a plan to turn things around.

3. Do nothing.

Both 1 and 2 are both perfectly reasonable responses – it is up to Miliband and his team to decide which is more appropriate. But 3 just isn’t an option, and it’d make Ed look weak in the face of criticism from his own side.

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    It’s probably not fair to Ed, but it is a reflection of modern politics, but he is going to have to do something if he wishes to be taken seriously not just in the Labour Party but nationally.  That “something” cannot be simply disciplining MPs, he actually has to show MPs and the Party something positive about what he stands for.  The blank sheet of paper is not working.

    The alternative is to do nothing, but the inevitable result of that is his leadership being more and more questioned on a frequent basis, and not just in internal debates but in the press.

    There’s a very simple calculation: how late can Labour leave it to get rid of the twonk and replace him with someone capable of winning a general election?  Dump him now or dump him 2 weeks after the GE in May 2015?  Either way, he’s never going to be PM.  The 2015 electoral damage to the Party of leaving him in place increases weekly.  Dumping him now may save 60 seats, dumping him in 2013 may save 40 seats, dumping him in 2014 only save 20 seats, having him in place in 2015 is going to be an electoral wipeout.  Like Neil Kinnock, but without his competence or charisma.

    I notice Alastair Darling looks increasingly statesmanlike.

    • Anonymous

      Alistair Darling has always been the sensible option.    But will he and other Scottish Labour MPs have seats if the nationalist nutters in Scotland get their way?

      • Franwhi

        Does JoeDM then stand for Joe Devolution Max ?  With your nationalist nutters comment you’re coming very close to moderation. It wasn’t them who rejected Scottish Labour but the Scottish people – if you’re comment refers to all 5 million of us then I reckon you’ve out Abbotted Abbott.    

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Does ‘statesmanlike’ mean ‘unimaginative and boring’? 

      Thankfully, you’re wrong in almost every way and given that I hardly ever agree with your point of view, this comes as some relief

      • Anonymous

        Good for the polls no need for an election then ask the Tories to give up surrender.

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        @ Mike Homfray,

        I suspect if we both mutually think the opposite of what each other thinks, then we’ll both be happy, and I wish you well, if not success in your political views.

  • Anonymous

    All three MPs have serious problems with expenses,, two were New labour one was not, but all are tainted, over the expenses scandal, one employs her husband and he sister in law.

    So I think Miliband could ignore them I doubt the top table in labour would bother, except of course others are asking the same questions.

    Where is labour going, who is it target voter, and what does it stand for.

    I have a feeling New labour is dead Long live new labour.

    Social housing is dead

    Education agree with the Tories.

    NHS is not having the same following any more not after Blair’s lot

    Welfare reforms agree with the Tories

    The battle is still on to see which party can win Tory voters, this is the way of New labour.

    • Kernow Castellan

      “The battle is still on to see which party can win Tory voters, this is the way of New labour.”
      The people you decry as “Tory voters” (ie those who switched to Blair in 97, plus those who voted Tory) are a majority in this country. If you exclude New Labour, when was the last time Labour were elected with a majority?

      What does that tell you about the country?

      The Labour party has a choice – does it want the purity of long-term opposition, or does it want to appeal to the segments of voters that can win it a government?

      • Anonymous

        Ah yes become the Tories which is what Labour has become, but the fact is why would you want to vote for a copy when the real thing is in power.

        • Kernow Castellan

          So. It’s the purity of long-term opposition then.

          Why not, it worked so successfully for Labour in the 1980s/1990s, and the Tories in the 1990s/2000s.

          • Anonymous

            So Power is your ideal, not policy just the power, good luck.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        It may not be able to do this unless they are unhappy with the present government. However, there are also non-voters and their is clear evidence that Labour voters stayed at home  last time more than did Tories. And the issue of the LD’s confuses matters still further.

        So I think it is a little more complicated.

        There does have to be a recognition that if the electorate has shifted definitively to the Right, then it is unlikely to turn to a left of centre alternative. 

  • Anonymous

    Option three it is then. But instead of calling it “Do nothing”  why not try to put a positive spin on it by calling it something along the lines of “Active quiescence” or similar?

    • Anonymous

      better keep the words simple, Bull S**T  much easier

  • Anonymous

    Go for option 2 whilst tearing of his shirt shouting I’m a real man.

    • Anonymous

      now your in it that’s sexist

  • Anonymous

    I wonder why these creeps bother to sneak off to the Mail, when they would be guaranteed a warm welcome from The Independent on Sunday, if they had a chat with John Rentoul. They could still give their little opinons at the same time saving some sort of self respect.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      All three have something to be negative about. Godsiff is a maverick right-winger, largely not take seriously, Stringer never made it as far as he thought he was going to, and Munn lost her frontbench role

      Its the only way they are going to make the papers!

      • Anonymous

        Question is of course how did they win their seats then…..

    • Anonymous

      But of course two others have used the Mail in the past week, two of them talking about welfare, shows how far labour has gone they need to talk to the Mail, but when needs must I suspect…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Barker/1546990341 Paul Barker

    Labour elected Ed because he was the least divisive candidate, a perfectly reasonable decision. To try and change Leader now would risk tearing your Party apart.
    Its the same choice now as in 2010 – accept decline now in the hope it can be reversed in 2020,  or risk losing your Party altogether.

    • Anonymous

      My hope was and still is Paul that he has the qualities to build a wider consensus
      on the centre left ground, whilst also managing to to unite the party/”factions.”

      But I believe some are still deeply resentful and in denial “their man” didn’t win,
      and they are still plotting behind the scenes, almost Shakespearean like.

      With this polarized dynamic, and some refusing to work constructively,
      I don’t see how it is possible to move forward into pastures new.

      As for members and supporters, I assume we are just permanently consigned
      to the sidelines, waiting and wondering what is happening to our party.
      The danger also is that people will get so fed up, will just switch off.

      I do believe Ed M has made a good start but as much further to go,
       eg on policy and direction; but this should not just be limited to
      constant ruminations about Ed M- it just looks nasty.

      If it were me I would take some very strong action;
      but also get those who do want to work for the good of the party actively
      on the case; no room for delay or inaction.

      The aspects that keeps occurring to me is “faith and trust;”
      working together….

      Hope to return later to read others’ comments;
      I literally have about 10 mins.

      Jo

    • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

      What you say doesn’t hold up to scrutiny – he was elected because the unions decided he was the best Stop David Miliband candidate. MiliD won a clear majority of the PLP and party members. So if we had another leader – one who commanded more support in the party – why would the party tear itself apart? Part if MiliE’s problem is he never had a proper mandate to start with. Changing leader (not something I’m advocating) might upset that public schoolboy mockney Charlie Whelan and his mates but that’s a different matter.

      Suggesting we just shrug our shoulders and continue with a crap leader so we can get a stronger party in a decade’s time really isn’t too helpful.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        But as (assuming you are a Labour supporter) the unions are an integral part of our party, and affiliate membership via unions has always been part of he party structure, why the complaints? Remember that it was the unions who actually prevented the left winning outright in the 1980′s. Because they won’t do your bidding now, its no good complaining

        And yes, I would have voted for any of the candidates best placed to beat David Miliband, whose politics are too right wing – simple as that

        • GuyM

          I don’t think anyone is saying your electoral result was wrong.

          I think a number are saying though that the will of the actual party and it’s MPs was not reflected in the result.

          So therefore why should they not be intitled to carry on campaiging for a replacement?

          You get loyalty by deserving it, not by dictat or anything else.

          Any labour member who wants to argue for a replacement leader is at liberty to do so, that includes MPs.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

          I am a Labour supporter – and, indeed, member.

    • GuyM

      Labour elected Ed because the unions wanted him…. no other reason.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        Union members affiliated to the Party…… 

        • GuyM

          Nothing at all to do with my point.

          The members and parliamentary party wanted someone else, the unions imposed a candidate that his own MPs and members didn’t want.

          That makes him fair game for disenchanted members and MPs in my opinion…. and in theirs it seems as well

          • Duncan

            If he had not done extremely well in the other two sections of the college, his strong showing in the union section would have been irrelevant.

            Although the college vote was close, in terms of individual voters, he was thousands of votes ahead.  Bear in mind that the electoral college is mathematically hugely weighted to MPs, followed by members, whereas each individual in an affiliated organisation has very little say in the final college.

            It is simply an untruth that is far too widely peddled that the unions “got their man” against the wishes of other parts of the movement.

  • Anonymous

    What these politicians are ignoring is that Britain needs real change not a change of party in government. Real change is always difficult, especially in Britain where the established order is so deeply entrenched, but it’s the only thing that can turn things around for the ordinary majority.

    If a bunch of petty jobsworths ditch Ed for the ‘right man’ who “knows how to work the media and look good in debates” but has no clue about how to bring about genuine change then it will be ordinary people who pay the price down the line – I guess the petty career politicians are more interested in their careers than ordinary people so it may well happen.

    In my view, Ed does need to put out some specific policy proposals out soon but I’m happy to wait for the right proposals rather than go around the new labour : new tory debt fueled downward spiral for another turn.  

    • Anonymous

      Mr Stinger :

      Mr Stringer denied the existence of Dyslexia calling it “a cruel fiction” invented by “the education establishment” to divert blame for Illiteracy  from “their eclectic and incomplete methods for instruction” The charities Dyslexia Action and the British Dyslexia Association criticised Stringer’s claims.

      And he claims to be a socialist, boy socialism has changed from my day.

    • Anonymous

      Well said Dave.

  • Anonymous

    Interesting that some MP’s thinking going to a right wing tabloid newspaper is the best way to address issues within the party Mark.They make good points, but why do it in this way?

    It’s hardly going to bring out the best from people, and raise tensions even further;
    the danger then is that a more defensive and knee jerk reaction is likely.
    It’s probably counterproductive in the longer run.

    If this was happening in a team of workers in business or an organization,
    it would be seen as grossly antagonistic and disloyal.

    There have to be other ways to address genuine concerns.

    I’d agree with you that 1 and 2 approach is reasonable, but not via
    tabloids etc.

    Jo

    • jaime taurosangastre candelas

      Would you rather Labour remain in opposition until at least 2020 (with a different Leader after June 2015), or change Leader in the next year and have a chance of regaining power in May 2015?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        I don’ t think it would make any difference. The next election will be a close race between the two major parties and its still more likely than not that no-one will gain a clear majority

      • Anonymous

        You don’t take into account recent history Jaime.

        The Tories constantly undermined John Major, minor backbenchers running off to the newspapers at the slightest excuse. By chipping away at his credibility, when they lost the 1997 election John Major resigned the next day. Then they tried Hague. Didn’t work out, then they tried Duncan-Smith – once ther “quiet man turned up the volume” his battery ran out three weeks later and they dumped him. Then they tried Michael Howard….. need I go on?.

        Dumping a leader who has been in place less than 2 years looks what it is – a panic measure, and if Labour do the same thing regarding Ed Miliband, they will end up in exactly the same situation as the Tories 1995-2005 – a decade I am sure most Conservatives would rather forget.

        If a week is a long time in politics, it is an Aeon till 2015, so I would advise Labour to give their leader a bit of support and stick up two fingers (so to speak) to “ Tory Socialists”  like John Rentoul

  • Anonymous

    I don’t see why the leader of the Labour Party should bother talking to three nonentities.  Ignore them would be my advice!

    I have just looked at UK Polling Report andLabour is on about 40% in most polls.  That is not bad, so we should calm down.

    • Anonymous

      Well boys and girls if Polls turn you on good luck…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=697126564 Paul Halsall

      I don’t think Ed is doing especially well right now, but I agree some people are running around pointlessly saying the sky is falling.

    • Anonymous

      So was Kinnock

      • Anonymous

        Labour is doing better in the polls now than in 1983-87 but worse than before the Tories got rid of Thatcher in 1990.  

        I expect that Labour will get in the mid to late 30s in the General Election in 2015.  This is not bad considering the disastrous result in 2010, which was caused by the stupidity of New Labour.   Blair and Brown managed to take Labour back to where it was in 1983! 

  • Anonymous

    As I am old and don’t like change, I expect Ed to stick with 3>.

    That will suit me fine..New leader in 2016 then.

  • TomFairfax

    Mark,
    I’d be worried if it was the Mirror. The Mail quoting ‘malcontents’ not saying anything particularly controversual seems perverse as an article from yourself, when Cameron has been on TV conceding ground on boardroom remuneration.

    Lest the New Labour lot keep making a fuss about an absence of policy, there are those of us who remember the criticism of Tony Blair for the this exact reason, and wait for it, he only pushed four, count ‘em all, yes four policies in 1997.

    Is EM doing well? Er, no. Do voters hate divided parties? Yes.

    So unless he falls under a bus, we have to make the best of the situation, and that means the Shadow cabinet turning up for work, because if the Leader was changed based on performance since 2010, we’d end up with the other Ed, and that probably would be not be so good at the ballot box.

    On the plus side EB, unlike the other Milliband he wasn’t rushing to stand shoulder to shoulder with Sarkozy and Merkel, no doubt in the hope the effort won’t do him any harm in getting on the EU Commissioner gravy train.

  • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

    Agree, that would be bold – John Major did it and it did shut his critics up for a while. As I mentioned earlier, he doesn’t have a proper mandate – but if he had a vote of confidence – at least from the PLP – then it would shore up his support and we can move on. Dan Hodges, John Rentaul et al would have to shut up. Of course he could lose but that’s better than stumbling on with no clear support.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      He does have a proper mandate according to the rules of the party which you, if a member, have agreed to abide by….

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        They may be the Party rules, but it does not stop the rules being completely stupid.  Let’s look at it:  those MPs he needs to work with very closely wanted another leader.  Party members wanted another leader.  A disparate and uncontactable group, many of whom are not party members did support him, very slightly.  That group is itself controlled by a set of people that the British people regard with deep suspicion.  Who on earth thinks that is a good idea as an electoral college?

        The Labour Party made a colossal mistake in allowing Ed Miliband to be  elected as the leader, and 2/3rds of them knew it.

        • Duncan

          Nonsense.  Our electoral college is massively weighted to the MPs.  In a field of 5 candidate, Miliband E performed very strongly in the PLP section, winning support from all “wings” of the party.  He did strongly in the CLPs section too.  The affiliated organisations section is the weakest part of the college (in terms of the weight given to individual voters) - it is impossible to win with the support of only one section. Stop repeating the Tory nonsense. 

          The fact that Miliband performed best in the union section should be perceived as a strength – he got thousands of individual votes more than his brother, despite the college turning that performance into a close result.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

            But Jaime is a Tory, Duncan, and his very right wing politics are enhanced by a hatred of anyone who has ever had anything to do with Gordon Brown. he really isn’t to be taken seriously other than as an opponent.

            Generally, I think some sort of electoral college is necessary because the unions are part of the party. The MP’s are highly over-represented

      • GuyM

        Members are not obliged to support a leader, they are free to campaign for a change if they decide.

        Or has the Labour party become a dictatorship?

        • Duncan

          They are absolutely free to do so, yes.  Trying to build up a “there is no alternative” mantra around the doctrines of the coalition is rather less forgiveable.

      • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

        The House of Lords have the right to amend legislation due to the rules of our constitution, George W Bush had the right to govern whilst losing the popular vote due to the rules of the electoral college. Just because it’s in the rules it doesn’t mean it’s right. You might think MiliE has a mandate, but if people perceive differently then however you want to view it, you still have a problem.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

          Nope, you’re the one with the problem – still bitter because Banana Boy didn’t win

          • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

            I’m not bitter just disappointed a few union hatchet men have managed to go against party members because they are more interested in dogma and scurrying to their comfort zones than seeing the return of a Labour government.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

            Moreover Mike, the point of this thread is that MiliE is the one with the problem – not me!

  • Daniel Speight

    If Ed Miliband is really different from his brother and New Labour is really dead he will have to take on the Blairite PLP members sooner or later. Maybe it’s better to do it sooner and have a united party going into the next election.

    I do suspect that most of the PLP are careerists and will back him in the hope of being seen as loyalists and those that don’t can read the history of the SDP and the Gang of Four.

    • Anonymous

      Totally agree. It is like being a bandleader and letting the third trumpeter, or the  bass trombonist decide the bands book. It needs to be Ed Miliband out front waving the baton.

      The three MPs who went snivelling off to the Mail are the equivalent of third trumpet.

      Ed Miliband should stand up to the bullies – for that is what they are (and I include media friends like Paul Richards and John Rentoul amongst the bullies). They are just sulking because “their” man didn’t become leader. Well, it is time they grew up and realise you can’t have all you want in life, or as the writer Saki once put it “if you can’t have what you love, you must love what you have”. In short, stop sulking boys.

  • Marie

    Option 3 is already a reality.
    Option 1 – would make matters worse
    Option 2 – how much more time  is  need to create a plan to turn things around?

  • Marie

    All very interesting comments and debates, but the question remains: after 19 months of loosing an election and 15 month into new leadership has Labour got electorate on it’s side  and is Labour fit to run the country.

  • Anonymous

    Cam must be laughing all the way to the bank – we should stop fighting within our ranks and start fighting the Coalition and their aggresive mandate.

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