The politics of the seminar room is costing Labour

January 24, 2012 11:04 am

Labour’s message isn’t cutting through. The announcement last week that the party could not promise to reverse every cut immediately was clearly sensible. No other position is viable. The direction of travel is right. But it didn’t work. Instead of talking about what Labour would do, we focused on what we wouldn’t.

Ed Miliband’s comments on responsible capitalism are clearly setting the political agenda. Cameron and Clegg are quick to follow with pale imitations. But in the same way that the stance against Murdoch only really impressed the Westminster bubble, Ed’s attack this week on Fred Goodwin and RBS boss Stephen Hester will only please Compass and the High Pay commission. Real people have shown no signs of particularly caring. “Responsible capitalism” means nothing to families struggling with below inflation pay increases, people who’ve been made redundant or young people priced out of further education.

The problem isn’t the guiding philosophy behind Labour’s agenda. The general thrust of social democrats making use of the state to challenge unfair structures, not to just as an instrument of spending (asStewartWoodoutlineshere), is correct . The problem is that we’re hearing too much about the guiding philosophy and not enough about the practicalities of policies and ideas that would change people’s lives for the better. Trying to run opposition via Guardian columns simply isn’t going to work.

Who can imagine voters in marginal constituencies having this conversation?:

“Have you seen Liam Byrne’s new interpretation of Beveridge’s approach to a contributory principle in the benefit system?”

“Yes, I thought really challenged my preconceptions towards Labour’s attitude to the welfare state- as well as giving me new insight on the much loved 1940s intellectual.”

How about this one?

“Have you seen the way Ed Miliband is leading political debate on moral markets? It’s a really fresh perspective that challenges the cross party neo-liberal consensus that frankly dominated the last half of the twentieth century?. “

Both pieces of positioning are right. But they are just that. Positioning. Hot air to Mondeo man and Worcester woman. Meaningless to ordinary people. By talking in nebulous terms we are tying ourselves in knots. Our inability to come up with a clear line on the benefit cap is a classic example. We are too frightened to forcefully oppose a dreadfully thought through policy; and too timid to suggest an alternative, like properly regulating buy-to-let landlords to bring the cost of private sector housing down.

Tony Blair’s observation in “A Journey” that ordinary voters don’t care about politics is spot on. People care about their families, their friends, their communities and their country, not about grandiose theories of social democracy. We are at the beginning of 2012, halfway through the Parliament. So far Labour has comprehensively failed to set out anything that looks like a coherent alternative to the government’s disastrous agenda.

In the leadership race Ed got noticed because the detailed policy positions he set out were worth noticing. If Labour wants people to start listening again, the party must give people something to listen to.

  • Duncan

    I think there is some truth in this (though I disagree with your conclusion that we are taking the “right” approach on some of the previously mentioned questions).  But I don’t think the public are going to be particularly interested in detailed policy at this stage either – after all, we can be as detailed as we like, we’re in opposition so we can’t do it.  What is needed is clearer, more direct, less “nuanced” messages.  I know a lot of people don’t care particularly for clarity, and you end up inevitably annoying either people like me or people like Paul Richards.  Well – to be fair, the balancing on a pinhead approach annoys both people like me AND people like Paul Richards, so perhaps it is worth making a choice!

    The Tories don’t mind talking about ideas.  They do it all the time, and they are right back to first principles: IDS and Cameron have come out with terrifying comments in the last few days.  IDS sounds like an insane ideologue when he talks of people not being harmed by his cuts and instead they are harmed by being dependent on him.  It’s the worst sort of debating society claptrap.  But it hasn’t harmed him or his policy with the public particularly.  David Cameron decided to echo Norman Tebbit today!  Norman Tebbit!!  He basically told benefit claimants to get on their bike.  Will it harm him?  We shall see, but I suspect Tory voters either agree with the ideology or agree with the reality that that ideology seeks to obfuscate (i.e. they really are concerned about the demoralising impact of welfare dependency or else they couldn’t care less about poor people).

    The only people who might think that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are “hardline socialists”, are people who will think that whatever they say and will never vote for us anyway.  So that concern – if it really exists – needn’t be uppermost in anybody’s mind.  We should be clear and direct in terms of what we oppose, what we support and why and in our general message for the future.  Everything else is just talking to people who are interested, yes, but ultimately have already made up their minds.

    • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

      Nonsense. Details which give the public alternatives are precisely what’s needed. Like, oh, rent caps rather than social cleansing. But no, Labour signs up to social cleansing.

      • Anonymous

        Blooming heck  people have got their knickers in a twist to day, it’s not nonsense it’s a person view, do not be so aggressive.

        • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

          Politics is personal. If your advocated policy cuts me, then you are trying to cut me. “Standing back” is the excuse of the bankers and the 1%.

      • Duncan

        I don’t think your point really contradicts mine.  I agree that we should, 100%, oppose the welfare cap, explain why, and give a broad outline of the alternatives (dealing with inflated private rents and ensuring supply of social housing).  What I’m saying is that to give details of exactly how such policies would work is counter-productive in 2012.  In that much we should learn from Cameron – he barely mentioned a policy until much closer to the election.  I think we can do better and should talk about what we believe and what we want to do, but I don’t think we should risk detail that we might later be forced to retract (with changing circumstances).  I suppose that sounds frighteningly as if I’m agreeing with Ed Balls – but I’m really not!

        • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

          Actually, my point is that with rent caps, a welfare cap is *unnecessary*, since very few households (hundreds) would have over 26k income anyway.

          What you’re doing is refusing to present a coherent alternative.

          Cameron got in – and only in a coalition – on “Labour bad”. That’s something which only works after 3-4 terms. No, what is needed is coherent, detailed alternatives to the damage being done: Work with the appropriate groups on each specific proposal!

          Of course when the Tories wreck more things new proposals will be necessary. It’s a moving target, you highlight WHY it’s a moving target: The government is to blame!

          Labour cannot do that now, which is why the left need a party of our own.

  • Anonymous

    “The direction of travel is right”

    I think you mean TO the right, Gus.

    Let’s be frank about it: if you are out of work or ill and facing cuts in welfare payments does it really matter whether it is Grayling and Duncan-Smith mkaing them, or James Purnell or Liam Byrne. Because, in the final analysis, they all support the Freud proposals.

    It might have been more to Labour’s credit when in office to have asked the simple question what does a multi-millionaire semi-retired (at 50 something) investment banker know about poverty and welfare. Indeed, what made him an “expert”. He managed to prove in a Telegraph article in February 2010 that he was no expert in that he wrongly described that a patients GP put them on Incapacity Benefit. This was a most elementary error for an “expert”.

    The problem for Labour is they are so timid, so frightend of upsetting people with new ideas, they just recycle their old ones, or half-heartedly support the coalition’s policies, pretending they would have a different “emphasis” though the outcome would be the same.

    To be blunt, Labour has got so far to the centre and even to the right of centre that to the average voter there is not much to choose between Conservative and Labour: this was OK when the Conservatives were weak and Blair made a very good surrogate Tory leader, but those days are past. Now it is Labour who are weak, and it is not helped by noisy old Blairites who can’t wait for Ed Miliband to fail so they can get “their” candidate in place as leader. Most of the sound and fury comes from the right-wing of Labour in parliament rather than the left – not that there arfe that many left-wingers left. The benches are stuffed with career politicians, lawyers, media types and yet despite all these nice smart little lads and lassies Labour, for the ordinarfy man in the street, and the core Labour supporter is still about as popular as a wickerwork chair in a nudist camp – and you know what impression that makes on people!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

    I’m not sure if its timidity or just a difficulty in setting out simple and clear proposals at this stage when we don’t know what we will face in 2015. Promises made now will not mean much if the situation is entirely differnt come the next election

    The other problem seems to be a need for simplicity. Is it just me or has the curse of instant information and expected quick answers removed the acceptance of the requirement to stand back and think about an issue? The benefit cap, for example, was actually a debate about nothing because hardly anyone talked about the actual reason why benefits have become so high – the cost of private rented housing. I’m not surprised the vast majority of people agreed that benefits should be pegged at £26000 because those figures are unheard of outside London and the south. Housing benefit should have been separated from the figures being bandied about and we should have done it time and time again.

    Somehow we need to be able to express clear intentions and directions of policy that we want to put into practice, without them being presented as water-tight promises. Perhaps fear of being trapped by the latter is harming the ability to do the former?

    It will always be easier for the Tories to transmit their message because its a simpler message and we do need to forget about trying to win over hardline Tories

    • Anonymous

      So you know Labour better then me these days, so what does labour now stand for, who is it’s core voters and what is it core ideals, we are not talking about policies now  but the core ideology of the Newer Labour party.

      I do not think anyone  living by me knows.

      The Welsh Assembly

      We will help the sick and the disabled by free prescriptions, we will build social housing and specially adapted housing, we will bring in NHS dentist, we will have free hospital parking, we will hold down the Tuition fees to £3000. Free blue badges labour England put the price up to £20

      We will have to allow the council tax to rise because of the risk to employment but we will hold it just below inflation.
      we have a billion pound to be spent on the regeneration of towns.

      Merthyr which has always been a mess, go look at it now google the New Merthyr town centre it now has a lower unemployment level then Cardiff with people now working in a new Tesco, Asda, Morrison, give the young people the chance and they will take it.
      My home town the town centre is dying £44 million new cinema,a ice skating rink and two new shops 150 bed hotel new McDonald, it may be low paid but it’s work.

      Labour working for the community the whole community not just the middle class. socialism at work.

       

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        I think you make a fair point. There is a continuity in Wales which to an extent we share here in Liverpool – but i think the national party is going through the usual agonies any party goes through after losing power.

        The reality is that there aren’t enough Liverpools and Merthyrs to give Labour a national majority, so yes, there will be concerns for a broader range of districts.

        I think the party is struggling with what it wants to do as opposed to what it may be able to do, and also finding it hard to make an impact in opposition. Its also the case that in opposition, peoople who were prepared to keep schtum before aren’t now . There are differences within the party, and there are some people who both you and I would consider to be surprisingly right wing for Labour people.

        However, I can undertsnd why the Ed’s said what they did about priorities and the difficulties of planning ahead, I just wish it had been said in a way which peiople had understood or which was not so easy to misrepresent

        • Anonymous

          Without hope is despair, your telling people what may happen in the hope they believe the Tories will make things bad, you have to also offer hope that labour has a plan, because without a plan an idea we may as well no bother voting.

        • Anonymous

          Without hope is despair, your telling people what may happen in the hope they believe the Tories will make things bad, you have to also offer hope that labour has a plan, because without a plan an idea we may as well no bother voting.

          • derek

            I think your right to phrase the word “despair” all the trends show that voting is in free-fall, we’re 3 years away from a G.E. and so far the Tories have clearly made some very bad decisions. Nothing is cast in Iron but predicted politics does suggest by 2015 the tories will have borrowed an extra 158Bn to create the condition last seen in the 1980′s. 

          • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

            And at the same time, Labour have surrendered.

            They’ve had plenty of time now to clarify what they meant, and they haven’t.

          • Anonymous

            They have to start saying and they have to start planning and Miliband has to learn  not to walk into silly traps of his own making.

            But the next election will not start until the mid way through 2014

          • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

            Only if Labour fail to pry the coalition apart.

            And it WILL be a major failure they’ll have to go into the election with.

          • Anonymous

            But of course the 1980′s saw the Tories destroy everything labour threw at them, even when on the floor and out they still beat Kinnock.

            But we all know Labour has to offer more then just cuts, it has to offer hope, at the moment the way the Labour party is talking we will all be jumping off the white cliffs of Dover like lemmins. Although if they are all out of work or disabled labour might not mind.

            And of course you watch the Tories give sugar and spice to the people just before election time.

            So labour has to have a plan tell us what it will do to make peoples live more then just living in poverty.

          • happy.fish

            The tories have been the party of fear (something which sadly New Labour took on board – terrorism laws, Iraq etc) they have set the agenda, with their fearmongering and it continues to the determent of the economy. We have seen the same process being applied to education and the NHS, rattling the poor public services cage again, which generates fear amongst those who use the system who they hope will respond by supporting their policies and at the same time creating fear within those professions, so that they won’t oppose the changes. Labour has in the past been the party of hope of a better more equal society, that is what won the election after the war despite a popular victorious war leader on the other side. Until we focus on this we will always play second fiddle to the tories if we try and play their game.

          • derek

            Can’t say I disagree with most of that. The fear factor will most probably remain.The number of people that bought their council home or a brand new home through  the imaginary inflated figures where compressed into the subservient and fear mode. What a wicked thing to do!

            The tories/new labour economic fudging isn’t an unseen situation? Millions more would probably shout louder and oppose stronger, if it wasn’t for their financial constraints.   

    • happy.fish

      The PLP is still looking inwards and still operates as if it were in power in terms of media strategy and general approach in interviews. When someone asks Ed about his personality or ratings etc he would be better ignoring it and make the real point that the country remains in a tough place and wasting time answering questions about trivia is not what we need now. Of course he woud then need to go on with highlighting the key problems and some clues to solutions, but hey who said politics is easy. Targetting Goodwin et al is actually a bit weak, and smacks of not wanting to upset anyone, hence target the ‘bogeymen’ who the general public don’t especially like. It is an insult to those people out of work, or struggling to make ends meet to see the best the Labour leader can offer them is stripping a knighthood from some bloke who they gave it to in the first place.

  • Anonymous

    Ed Milliband’s attack on Fred Goodwin doesn’t impress anyone at all, because unless he thinks we’ve all got short memories, Fred got his knighthood off his mate Gordon Brown.   He treats us as if we’re all stupid and the result of that is showing in the polls.  Knee jerk populism on issues that don’t count and woolly indecision on issues that do.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Its daft if Ed is being blamed for something he had no control over.

    • Mike Murray

      “the result of that is showing in the polls.

      Where? Did you have a look at UK Polling Report before you wrote your inacurate nonsense? The latest You Gov puts us at 40% and the Tories at 39%. We have consistently been neck and neck with them for a year.

      • Anonymous

        Funny how people are angry that they cannot just  say I think your wrong they have to go off on a rant.

        I do not remember to many parties being elected by Yougov or any other polling company, I do remember that we were told Labour had a commanding lead in Scotland look at that one, polls are a guide to how the group of people they ask feels.

      • Anonymous

        YouGov puts Labour ahead by one point, and ICM in the Guardian puts the Tories ahead by 5 points.  

        If you think that’s good, given what’s happening, then things really are desperate.

        • Mike Murray

          You seem to have missed my point. ICM is just one sample. You Gov has consistently put us at neck and neck over the year.

        • Mike Murray

          Given the terrible media and press drubbing Labour have been receiving we should be 15 to 20 points behind the Tories. We aren’t.

    • Dave Postles

      ‘doesn’t impress anyone at all’
      Nor did the NY honours list or the contributions to the Tory Party coffers.

  • Anonymous

    The problem for Labour is basically people see it as a failure, it failed to sort out the housing crises, immigration could not be controlled until the end of the term, You keep on telling people who are out of work labour is not the party of you, we are the party of the hard working.

    Listen OK we failed with Banking, but  you can now trust us.

    Today labour has stared to attack the Tories on the NHS, I say attack it squeaked out an attack, which sounded feeble.

    Labour is in trouble with a Leader who basically not sure which way to go, he’s like to be more left, but yet not sure if New labour maybe the way to go.

    Somebody needs to get him sit him down and which ever way it decided, be in new labour , Old labour or Newer labour pick one and go for it, because if they keep on messing about the people will think my god they could cause an even worse banking crises. 

  • Anonymous

    “In the leadership race Ed got noticed because the detailed policy
    positions he set out were worth noticing. If Labour wants people to
    start listening again, the party must give people something to listen
    to”.

    So the Union vote did not get him elected then, the fact is if the Union had backed David Miliband then he would be leader of the opposition, although opposition is the wrong word really.

    I suspect Ed had a few Union speech writers working for him, he would not have come up with much on his own, or we agree with the Tories

    • Anonymous

      “the fact is if the Union had backed David Miliband then he would be leader of the opposition,”

      Well, every cloud has a silver lining!

      Just imagine being spoken down to by the pompous and arrogant Banana man

      • Anonymous

        But the fact is without the Union Ed would not now be the leader, well you know what I think of both New Labour and Newer labour.

        Perhaps taking a look at the 1945 manifesto by labour would make some of them think a bit more about what we can do without breaking the bank, sadly labour did break the banks

        • Anonymous

          With respect, I believe things would be worse. Ed Miliband is at least personally honest and was unscathed by the expenses scandal. David was not. If DM was leader we would be back to the bad old Blair days.

          Anyway DM has just taken up a new job for £50,000 for a few days each month, and so he wouldn’t have time.

  • Daniel Speight

    When the two Eds do what the Blairites want and then it doesn’t work, who’s fault is it? I know for sure it’s not the Blairites because it’s never their fault. Not sure who they are going to blame this time, but just remember it’s not them.

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