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The Tories would be right not to underestimate Labour

January 27, 2012 2:54 pm

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Recently Tim Montgomerie launched a campaign to encourage Tories not to underestimate Labour. Despite our recent difficulties, he’s right to do so. At the last election we picked up just 29% of the vote and just weeks from election day it looked possible that we could slump into third place in the popular vote. That would have been a disaster that the party might never have recovered from.

18 months later, and things (though improved) aren’t as good as we’d like them to be. The Labour Party – for perhaps the first time in its history – has had a good long drink of victory and government, and we’ve got a taste for it. Large portions of our membership, and a huge chunk of the PLP, aren’t used to opposition.

Being 10% higher in the polls is a good start, but as Emma Burnell rightly noted yesterday, “the problem is not that Labour are doing badly, it’s that the Tories are not.” We’re not happy doing “quite well” anymore. We want to be winning the arguments, and winning votes. Never again will the Labour Party attempt to argue that finishing second is some kind of moral victory. The Labour Party does not – despite what some would have you believe – enjoy oppisition this time around.

Montgomerie is right to say that the formation of the coalition was a huge gift to Labour. The party leadership won’t be forgiven if we don’t take maximum advantage of that.

Tim is right not to underestimate Labour. We should hope that the Tories take no notice of him.

  • Anonymous

    When you have Labour and Conservative so close in policy on a number of fronts, perhaps both parties should be nervous in case the public notice that those policies are not working.

    I have to say Mark, though it is obvious Labour don’t like being opposition, that seems more because they crave power for it’s own sake, rather than having anything new or fresh to offer – to be brutally frank, for the ordinary person low down on the ladder it doesn’t make a great deal of difference to them whether it is Cameron/Clegg in power or the latest New Labour leader. I had higher hopes of Ed Miliband, who, whilst not being nearly so objectionmable as his older brother isn’t exactly inspirational – but then none of those names touted by those who want a change would be any better.

    Does it matter if Grayling and Smith institute Freud, or Byrne?: at the end of the day it amounts to the same thing for those who are dependent on welfare benefits, and of course it was “Labour” in the smarmy guise of Blair and Purnell who bought this loathsome banker into prominence by pretending he was an expert on welfare.

    As of January 27th 2012 it seems to me that a Labour government would merely carry on with most of the coalition’s current policies.

    I look forward to the day that Ed Miliband stops having to look over his shoulder at the bitter old Blairites, puts them in the past where they belong, stops fretting over what the Murdoch press or the Daily Mail “thinks”, and presents, if not concrete policies, at least some evidence that the Labour party doesn’t want to be a cheap copy of the Conservative party. For a start he could try having a reshuffle to weed out some of the dreary failures in the shadow cabinet – and stamp  his authority.

    • Anonymous

      We will see in three and a bit years time a lot can happen in that time.

      • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

        Well yea, and it WILL be 3 1/2 years because Labour’s incompetence has taken the pressure off the LibDems.

        *claps*

    • Anonymous

      I think in all honesty Miliband would have Purnell back in a shot two of them could knock on doors save hiring all those inspectors.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, to put it bluntly, I think all the old crap who left Parliament in 2010 – Purnell, Milburn etc would all suddenly rediscover their “passion for politics” if David Miliband became leader and would be parachuted into safe seats

        • Anonymous

          Nothing like a good solid wage packet when your struggling to get people to spend in a recession. 

    • Anonymous

      Agreed, it seems impossible even to imagine any truly social democratic reforms. The minimum wage and the 50p tax rate were the last signs of any policies which go the way of the majority of people in this country and it’s only a matter of time before the Tories abolish the 50p rate and leave inflation to make the minimum wage an irrelevance.
      Ironic that these policies are hugely popular with the electorate but Labour are too timid to espouse anything remotely socially democratic.

    • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

      His shoulder? He’s complicit. He pushed to get his choice of shadow ministers, and got it.

      No, the Left need their own party now.

  • Anonymous

    You can’t really underestimate any of the three main parties because no-one knows what the outcome of the next Election will be.
    When the Conservatives underestimate Labour and presume that they will win an outright victory next time round, it makes them look arrogant and smug.
    When Labour believe that they can win an overall majority next time round, simply because they are the only real opposition, that too looks arrogant and presumptuous.
    And when both the Conservatives and Labour underestimate the Lib Dems and claim that they will be decimated at the next election, that also seems arrogant to the electorate.
    I could go on…
    Most people thought that the Conservatives would win in 2010, instead they couldn’t even limp over the finishing line, even though a deeply unpopular Prime Minister was in place, a tired Labour Government were in place and the only other alternative were the Lib Dems, who were categorized as being capricious and ineffectual.
    Labour are surprised at how difficult opposition is; just because you aren’t the present Government, it doesn’t mean that you will be shooed in…

    • Anonymous

      The times I have heard Labour say at conference go home and get ready, the time we were told go home and do not take no for answer argue and discuss  until you win the argument.

      Only for somebody within labour to say something really stupid and you think to your self your joking how could they say that,

      Same now in my area we have people out of work, sick disabled and nobody in my area earning £14,000 thinks they are middle class.

      Wales 5 plus 5     bit different from Milibands five.

      More apprenticeships and training opportunities for our young people. Access to GP surgeries in the evenings and Saturdays. More funding for our schools. An extra 500 PCSOs for safer communities Double the number of children benefiting from free childcare and health visiting.

      Five to keep

       

      Free prescriptions to help hard-working families and encourage people back to work. Free bus travel for pensioners and disabled people and their carers. Free school breakfasts and school milk for the under 7s. Support for Welsh students so they will not have to pay higher tuition fees.Help for people who have been made redundant – building on the successful ReAct programme.

      Dioch…. thanks

  • Anonymous

    “The Labour Party – for perhaps the first time in its history – has had a good long drink of victory and government, and we’ve got a taste for it. Large portions of our membership, and a huge chunk of the PLP, aren’t used to opposition.” 
     
    Indeed, for those who have forgotten how it felt to be part of an unending Labour goverment, I provide this link: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    • Anonymous

      Sujrely nobody takes that writer seriously?. Then and especially not now.  If any village is looking for an idiot, I am sure he will be available at competitive rates – he even supplies his own cap and bells :-)

      • Anonymous

        It seems that Mr Balls takes Mr Simon seriously.  According to the Birmingham Post earlier this month Mr Balls came “very close” to endorsing Mr Simon as Labour’s candidate for Mayor of Birmingham!

        • Anonymous

          I can only say then that if Mr Balls rates this self-seeking clown, what a good job it is he is not Labour leader!

      • TomFairfax

        Damn your eyes Alan, I don’t need that kind of competition out here ;)

  • Anonymous

    I am not sure what to think about Mark’s article.  He accepts that Labour is not in a bad position considering the disastrous result in 2010 but it seems that he cannot bring himself to be happy about it.  It is a bit like people on the far left who cannot wait to accuse the Labour Party of betrayal, for example, the comment that the Labour leadership will not be forgiven.

    A possible explanation for that disastrous result in 2010 was that Labour spent 13 trying to upset left of centre voters.  Those voters very quickly returned to Labour following the coalition and the election of a Labour leader that sounds like a Labour leader (falling out with trade union leaders is actually quite Old Labour).  I am optimistic that Labour will go into the next election in 2015 with a realistic, pragmatic but left of centre manifesto. 

    • Anonymous

      If I may say so Robert, I find your second paragraph both complacent and erroneous.

      It is true Blair and his bully boys took great pleasure in sticking up two fingers at those who didn’t agree with all their right-wing views – not just “ordinary” members, but highly respected Labour figures, but where is your evidence people are returning to Labour?. IT certainly isn’t reflected to any grteat extent in opinion polls – if you take them as a guide, which the leadership certainly does

      This ties in with the Blair/Mandy/Campbell view that the mugs will vote for us because they have nowhere else to go – not true, I am afraid. There is a Green MP for example in the former Labour Brighton constituency. Ralph Baldwin, who made some very valuable contributions to Labour List a few years ago now sits as an Independent on Barking and Dagenham council because he found himself at odds with his Labour colleagues. He is a man with principles and a mind of his own.

      There are a lot of Labour supporters with principles who will not meekly vote Labour even though they disagree with the current direction the party is going in.

      I sincerely hope Ed Miliband can articulate genuine Labour policies, not carry on just half-heartedly endorsing Coalition policy, which they have done, and are doing. If he can shake off the malign influence of the Blair years (and to some extent Brown’s) there is still a chance, but as things stand today, as a Labour voter for 40 years would I vote Labour?. I am afraid not.

      • TomFairfax

        Hi Alan,
        It’s not just Ralphwho has decided not to take the easy route of being mere unthinking canon fodder in Dagenham.

        An analysis of why he and others are so appalled with the leadership there would make a very good case study for understanding why the BNP think they’re in with a chance again.

        • Anonymous

          The BNP will never grow while they have idiots in charge and I do not care if they came out with a cracking set of policies, people may well turn from Labour and it came ever so close to me voting BNP in anger, but I remembered    what the Burke’s stood for and I cannot or never will  vote for them, after all these idiots agreed with the killing of people in Hitler’s Germany.

          Not to say one day somebody will form a party which does offer an new world under a dictatorship

          • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

            The BNP are clowns, but they’re *dangerous* clowns. Underestimating them is a mistake.

          • Anonymous

            Only  Brown did that at his cost the BNP are going nowhere

        • Anonymous

          Hi Tom. I have and had a great respect for Ralph when he posted on this site. He is a councillor in the borough adjoining mine – I don’t know the ins and outs of why he resigned from the Labour council, but I am sure his reasons must have been good and valid. The sad thing is he is just the type of person the party needs – a down to earth man, who has done real work (including the armed services), has had health problems because of that and is a man of integrity and courage. I am sure there are many more Ralph’s out there and it is this sort of person the party should worry about losing – not the Luke Boziers of this world.

          • TomFairfax

            Hi Alan,
                            Spot on.

            I believe Ralph still reads LL even if he keeps his own counsel. I’m sure if he wasn’t so frustrated at trying to pick away at a mountain of corruption and graft in a dialogue with the deaf he might have something to write about it.

            Luke Bozier of course appears to love the sound of his own voice.

            I don’t necessarily agree with all Ralph has said and done as a result of the circumstances he has found himself in, but it’s those circumstances and the behaviour that he has explained he witnessed from a supposedly Labour council that need explaining, not his conclusions and reaction.

            The other guy who’s been given the order of the boot had the temerity to oppose over enthusiastic cuts. So arguably in line  with the party at large including the Shadow Chancellor.

            So in conclusion, Ralph, George, if you’re reading this, the local party may not want you, but that doesn’t mean that you’ve left Labour, more that you’re sticking with it when others have sold out their principles or are afraid to join you just yet.

          • Anonymous

            Hi Tom, I hope if Ralph still reads LL and sees this he will be tempted to come back. I left LL for a time because I wasn’t allowed to speak my mind under it’s former editorship (sincere congratulations to Mark for allowing real debate). With all due respect to him Alex had a sort of “Let’s not be beastly to the Blairites”  agenda. Enough said.

            I know that, like myself, Ralph was concerned about the behaviour of so many Labour (and other parties) MPs in the matter of personal honesty, bought to a head  by the expenses scandal. I have always rated personal honesty and transparency as a pre-requisite in public life, and people who paint the impression that all benefit claimants are bogus or dishonest lose any shred of moral credence when they themselves “play the system”. I do know he was campaigning and working very hard in Barking at a time when his physical health was poor, and if you ARE reading this, Ralph, I hope you will put yourself forward as an Independent candidate at the forthcoming elections – politics needs people of  his integrity, and knowledge of real life.

            I sound as if I am in danger of becoming Ralph’s John Rentoul, but in all sincerity the Labour party needs men of the calibre of Ralph much more than it needs another Blair

      • Anonymous

        Alan, the evidence is that polls, by-elections and local elections all suggest that Labour’s support has gone from the late 2os% to the late 30s%.   I am happier with the Labour Party now than I have been for at least ten years.  This is not saying much, however, as I voted Lib Dem, Green or far left in many elections during the New Labour era.

      • Anonymous

        Alan, the evidence is that polls, by-elections and local elections all suggest that Labour’s support has gone from the late 2os% to the late 30s%.   I am happier with the Labour Party now than I have been for at least ten years.  This is not saying much, however, as I voted Lib Dem, Green or far left in many elections during the New Labour era.

        • Anonymous

          In all honesty Robert, they are going to have to do very much better to convince many disaffected Labour voters. I am not suggesting opposition for it’s own sake, but while Labour continue to come out with absurd statements which suggest they would do the same as the coalition, but just with a different emphasis on “presentation” (“we’re like the Tories, only nicer” so to speak), they offer no incentive to former Labour voters to bother voting for them. These days there ARE other places to go than Labour, but the biggest danger is that you will get a lot of ex Labour voters not bothering to vote at all.

          When you have Liam Byrne grinning his way through TV interviews, to name but one, you can understand why those ex Labour voters feel so unenthused about the shadow cabinet

          • Anonymous

            Alan, I agree to a large exent.  It is actually surprising that Labour is doing quite well in the polls when you consider the last 15 years.

            I stopped being a right-wing leadership loyalist for most of the New Labour era.  It seems that I have returned to that position, so something must have changed.

          • Anonymous

            Hi Robert, If you’ll allow me to say so, distance lends enchantment – the paternalistic gung-ho days of Blair don’t (to you) seem so bad now because Blair is devoid of power (though his fortune allows him to appear “powerful” at least to himself, with his foundations Windrush Ltd (have you seen the website? – it’s a hoot), and the otiose “peace envoy” nonsense.

            I should say you have the best of both worlds, in that Labour is still led from the right, but the sleaze and dishonesty has to some degree been swept up from the nesting box in that the taxi for hire, The Hoon Show and Jacqui Smith’s box room, along with Blunkett’s trouser-dropping and cash for honours are but foetid memories of the past.

            But if Ed’s more pompous brother and his banana ever did assume the leadership, you could expect more war-mongering and, I suspect, the return to Parliament of some of the ghastly old waxworks like Purnell, Tom McNulty and Milburn.

            Be careful what you wish for…….

          • Anonymous

            Hi Alan, the Blair era still seems awful to me and I was close to leaving the Labour Party for much of it.  This might be why I tend to be tolerant of Ed M, who is the least bad Labour leader we could be stuck with.

          • Anonymous

            That tends to be my feeling Robert, but he needs better front-benchers (Byrne trying to reheat the Third Way just shows the poverty of his imagination), and of course, there is that horrible sense of the Blairites waiting for ED to fail so they can start their nonsense all over again.

        • Anonymous

          The evidence is not being given is it, we do not know which way the membership is going.  Peter Kenyon has been trying to find out but it’s silence. But local parties do contact each other and at the moment many parties are saying membership is dead it’s static, but as one  party stated  if you take people who are not paying their dues but are still classed as members then party numbers are dropping again like a stone. I have not paid membership now for three years and I get the Christmas cards the call to arms, even though I wrote to tell them I had left, I’m classed as member in arrears.

    • Anonymous

      It’s believed that Labour has maybe 100,000  members it’s believed that is now going down again, my local party has warned it may well have to close after 110 years due to being unable to hold a meeting it wrote to Miliband warning the policies are not bringing in people.

      Membership is growing say Labour , but growing and returning to the levels of the 1990′s is a bit different, my local party had to bring in people from out side the area and only targeted  the richer areas of the town as they believed these would be more likely to vote Labour, says it all really the richer area.

      Labour will go into the next election to scared to say to much in case it up sets the swing voters, in case it annoys the real labour voters, and in case it up set the cat catching mice or not in Downing street, old saying you cannot please all of the people all of the time, comes to mind

      • Anonymous

        Treborc, it is difficult but Labour should aim for a manifesto that appeals to both swing voters and real voters.  This will be easier because Labour will be the only major left of centre party in England and first past the post will favour Labour, because votes for the coalition will be split between the Tories and Lib Dems.  

        • Anonymous

          But swing voters by definition swing to the party which meets their requirements, if you look at the swing voters they were mainly Thatcherite Tories who wanted to keep a Thatcherite program going which of course was new labour.

          Now of course labour have lost a great deal of the many working class voters who rather sit at home then vote Labour and whether people like it or not Miliband is a pale imitation of a New labour Blairite party

      • Anonymous

        I was referring to people voting Labour rather than membership.  The easy way to see whether membership is actually increasing is to look at the Labour Party’s accounts.   Income from membership will increase if membership has actually increased.

    • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

      I think you’re dreaming.

      And even if it does, there’s NO way the left are going to listen. Why should we, when Labour is currently shadow-boxing and even agreeing with the Tories on major policies where they SHOULD differ?

      You expect people to be stupid, basically.

      • Anonymous

        People to the left of the Labour Party always have a difficult choice to make in first past the post elections.  Voting for anybody apart from Labour runs the risk of letting the Tories in.  I am hoping that people on the left will decide that Ed M will be better than Cameron and Clegg.

        I actually favour PR and voted for AV last year.  A party to the left of Labour would be viable if we had PR or AV.  We do not, however, so the intelligent choice for the left in 2015 might be to hold your nose and vote Labour.  I should add that I could not bring myself to do this in 2005 and voted Lib Dem.

    • Anonymous

      Hi Robert, I think the danger of any government in power for too long is that it runs out of steam, almost becomes a parody of itself; certain areas become too entrenched.Also, top down authoritarianism, lack of democratic process at all levels, becoming out of touch with ordinary members and the public’s concerns?

      I think crucial factors in its demise were the decision to go to Iraq and the way it was done; the increasing perception of “New Lab;” eg being overly politically correct and perhaps meddling; in my view- GB came in during its weaker aftermath-
      he was almost like the “fall guy.”
      Then the global recession and all that followed.
      The right wing media during the election coverage….

      Remarkably though, the electorate proved they are not gullible
      or easily led- they make up their own minds; and there is far
      more complexity and nuance in views and choices made.

      DC and the Tories had enormous funding and resources at their disposal;
      also predominantly a media that villified GB and promoted the latter.
      Remember those posters in marginal seats, and the tabloid imagery?

      And yet- it’s been said about 56% of the electorate voted Labour
      or LD, despite being against all odds, in the financial climate-
      and post 13 years of New Lab.
      Not one media source predicted anywhere near the
      convoluted results; much left to question.

      As for now, I think people really want Labour to be
      stronger- to remain a credible alternative force,
      not a pale imitation, or agenda set by others.
      But I do think reform is needed, and more
      experienced people to shore up its foundations.

      I think there is every possibility and potential
      we can get there- but much still needs to change.

      Jo

      • Anonymous

        Apologies for duplication; I got “system error” first time of posting.

        But it was in response to robertcp.

        Thanks, Jo.

      • Anonymous

        Hi Jo, I think that your last paragraph sums up the situation well.  There is now possibility and potential, but we should not be complacent.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks Robert- sorry, didn’t see your comment earlier.

          I’ve slightly lost track of this thread now!

          Cheers, Jo.

    • Anonymous

      Hi Robert, I think the danger of any government in power for too long is that it runs out of steam, almost becomes a parody of itself; certain areas become too entrenched.Also, top down authoritarianism, lack of democratic process at all levels, becoming out of touch with ordinary members and the public’s concerns?

      I think crucial factors in its demise were the decision to go to Iraq and the way it was done; the increasing perception of “New Lab;” eg being overly politically correct and perhaps meddling; in my view- GB came in during its weaker aftermath-
      he was almost like the “fall guy.”
      Then the global recession and all that followed.
      The right wing media during the election coverage….

      Remarkably though, the electorate proved they are not gullible
      or easily led- they make up their own minds; and there is far
      more complexity and nuance in views and choices made.

      DC and the Tories had enormous funding and resources at their disposal;
      also predominantly a media that villified GB and promoted the latter.
      Remember those posters in marginal seats, and the tabloid imagery?

      And yet- it’s been said about 56% of the electorate voted Labour
      or LD, despite being against all odds, in the financial climate-
      and post 13 years of New Lab.
      Not one media source predicted anywhere near the
      convoluted results; much left to question.

      As for now, I think people really want Labour to be
      stronger- to remain a credible alternative force,
      not a pale imitation, or agenda set by others.
      But I do think reform is needed, and more
      experienced people to shore up its foundations.

      I think there is every possibility and potential
      we can get there- but much still needs to change.

      Jo

    • Anonymous

      I think if Labour are playing the Union then sadly the spin doctors need sacking, we are being told meeting are being called by local Union to discuss disaffiliation   this is not just smoke because this time two of the major payers of Labour debts could leave. This is cutting off your nose to spite your bankers, labour in serious debt hence the attempt to find out what property labour owns and this alone could see labour in trouble with local parties .

      Labour if they annoy the Union who do not seem to be finding it funny  then tell me where does labour get it’s funds for the next election.

      As for this lot being to the left I think again smoke, this is still basically New labour  until it tells what it will be standing on.

      • Anonymous

        Labour leaders will often fall out with union leaders.  It is a fact of political life.  But I agree that Labour will be stuffed if GMB, Unite or Unison disaffiliate. 

  • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

    There’s nothing to estimate in the first place, it’s all shadow boxing. The government will override it’s lords defeats, thank Labour for taking pressure OFF the LibDems and continue as it plans to.

    *claps*

  • Daniel Speight

    And yet something that fails to get acknowledged, because I suspect people who read political blogs are themselves dragged into this other world, is the disgust out there among the public of our political class and of Labour in particular.

    It wasn’t just the expense scandal although that moved on the appearance of political sleaze by a huge amount. There had always been that half joking feeling that politicians were in it for themselves. You know the “How can you know when a politician’s lying? They open their mouth.” The public had seen the Tory sleaze of the Major government followed by New Labour’s adoption of this amongst other Tory policies. I remember thinking as Harman said how she was going to take away Goodwin’s pension that it wouldn’t happen. We had the lovely exposure of Labour ex-ministers looking for lobbying money before the last election, (none of whom I think have been expelled from the party.)

    Following the election we have the sight of Liberals breaking the pledge they gave students in order to get their election vote. Let’s not even touch the Tory “We’re all in together.” coming from a bunch of millionaires. Then of course we learned about the criminal actions of the tabloid press while our politicians cozied up their owners.

    If somehow Labour could make a break from this history of dishonesty and sleaze, there’s a chance we could became a mass popular party again. It would need bravery and the dumping of those in the leadership who have failed us so badly. That means Straw, Harman,  Hain, Mandelson, Campbell and half of the shadow cabinet and PLP. A new start really is needed this time, and it’s not a third way, it’s a return to basic principles.

    • Anonymous

      Couldn’t agree more, Daniel. I have said elsewhere how Blunkett appeared on Any Questions last night, and you couldn’t get a sheet of Bronco between him and Tory Danny Finkelstein on the question of welfare payment reductions. At one point the bearded buffoon said that “they should get jobs” (the programme is repeated today at 1310 on R4), as if it were that easy – apart from the fact that we have unemployment at it’s highest in 17 years it is not that easy for older people and those with health problems to find work.

      His favourite expression “when I was in government” reminded you of the fact that it was a long time ago now, and the BBC should be looking at politicians who are going somewhere rather than those who have been and gone. How anyone can take Blunkett and some of the other washed up old wrecks seriously is beyond my imagination, but they continue to have a disproportionate amount of airtime. That and Mandelson crawling out of the woodwork again this week on Radio 4 makes your point all the more valid.

      • Anonymous

        When David Blunkett appeared on Mastermind he chose Harry Potter as his specialist subject scoring a modest nine points: in his general knowledge round Blunkett only managed to score an abysmal two points – yes! – two points for general knowledge! – giving him a moron-like score of a miserable eleven points for both rounds. He was Home Secretary at the time.

        David Blunkett’s Mastermind fiasco shows his greatness

        Hard to believe that this oversexed, crass and stupid idiot was once Labour Secretary of State for Education and Employment isn’t it?

        Blimey!

        It’s enough to make a strong man weep.

        • Anonymous

          Blunkett has always seemed to me a Walter Mitty type. For some reason the thing that really disgusted me (though I am not religous) is the fact that at the time he was in full sail, boasting about making another man’s wife pregnant, and then writing those laughable self-pitying diaries – to make even more money he even allowed the Daily Mail to serialise them (October 2006) – he made great play of the fact he remained a Methodist lay preacher in his local church!.

          I think that said it all

  • Holly

    How can I put this without upsetting people?
    Labour can never win the argument by going on the very topics the public blame them for getting/going so disasterously wrong.
    This then leaves them with the bigger problem of  what other ‘topics’ they can raise, because even with the energy companies or rail fares, from a voter point of view, Labour had ample opportunity to fix them and CHOSE not to.
    Now they are on their moral high horse over Hetsers bonus and making the benefits cap regional, well from a voter’s point of view if it is Hesters moral duty to forgo a previously agreed bonus through his job, then it should be an equally moral duty for the benefit claimant to move to a cheaper area.
    Morals should apply to all of us, not just the wealth creaters & earners.
    In some cases the cost to the taxpayer for housing benefit is the same, if not more, over a year, as Hesters bonus..Which he will only get if he makes RBS sucessful.
    Miliband needs to STOP trying to win the next election and look further into the future
    He has to get rid of all those tainted by Brown/Blair and put in HIS prefered people, some fresh blood…Unpopular in the short term, but his objective should be to win in ten years time, when he can inherit a stable economy & no Balls there to screw it up.
    He simply needs to STOP coming out with ideas, when the public are still reeling from Labours wreckage. He or Labour will not just ‘plop’ back into government in 2015 and neither should they for the damage they caused financially, socially and morally.
    My apologies if I have offended some of you.

    • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

      “He simply needs to STOP coming out with ideas, when the public are still reeling from Labours wreckage.”

      You’re missing the point. The most concerning issue now is the unnecessary damage being done to the economy by Cameron & co. Don’t you remember how Cameron’s premiership started? With assured predictions of a growth led recovery… cut the public sector and the private sector will step up to the plate, take up the slack, and lead us to a speedy deficit reduction and then on to glory!

      Well, for every 11 jobs lost in the public sector only one has been created in the private sector. Unemployment up. Domestic growth blown away in an austerity frenzy.

      Let’s face it: it’s looking DISASTROUS  and there’s no prospect of any improvement.

      What is needed now, more than ever before, is new ideas on how to deal the mess Cameron & co are plunging us, ever deeper, into.

      My apologies if I have offended you.

      • Anonymous

        Unions are like Labour wave a few quid in front of them and they will back anything, wave a safe seat at them and you have them.  The GBM backed welfare reforms and  for a while workfare they signed up to protect the people who would force the disabled back to work saying workers needed to be protected from abuse.

      • Anonymous

        I do not give a dam who I offend, the real problem is of course the damage done to the economy was massive and it was done by a banking and Financial sector let go by a Labour party with a leader who had no idea at all, and that party was labour, and the public would say that the financial mess in the EU would have caused labour problems. It’s the blame game and Labour are losing it, of course the public will sooner or later forget about labour mess and start to blame the Tories.

        Most of the areas in which rents are low would of course rise with the increase they are only low because demand is low. But many people who rent still refuse to rent to people on benefits, in my area if you phone around looking for rental your told are they working can we have a CV no children and no welfare.

        The fact is labour built so social housing or not enough the could no afford it according to Prescott, it would cost billions and what Government would spend billions

  • Anonymous

    Things for the Labour Party are far from rosy.

    During parliaments opposition parties often register artificially increased support in polls relating to voting intention because the population use polls like this – and bi-elections too for that matter – as a means to express dissatisfaction with government plans and policies. Voters feign support for the opposition to express displeasure with government of the day even though, during a real general election, many of them tend to switch back to their original political party of choice and end up voting to return the current government of “least worst options” back to office. If all the Parties are offering basically the same agenda why bother to change horses midstream. Better the devil you know and all that.  Generally support for opposition parties is often favourably exaggerated in polls mid term during a parliament. 

    Being neck and neck with the Coalition nearly twenty months after the general election is actually therefore a pretty BAD result for the Labour Party, since polling probably falsely inflates apparent Labour support by a significant percentage. Post 2013 if the Labour Party isn’t permanently 7% – 10% AHEAD of the Coalition or incrementally increasing its share of the vote month by month on trend the Party will quite probably be in dire straights.

    • jaime taurosangastre candelas

      The boundaries will be fair in 2015 for registered voters.  I read somewhere that could be a net 3% loss of apparent Labour support.  It is time for Labour to conduct a vigorous voter registration drive if the Party wish to avoid that additional 3% loss of support.

      • Dave Postles

        Understood, but, OTOH, MPs represent constituents, not just voters, since they perform constituency work for their constituents whether they are registered voters or otherwise, voted or did not vote.  In that sense, the parliamentary boundaries should be assessed on the census data for 2011 so that MPs represent an approximately equal number of constituents.  IMHO, of course.

        • jaime taurosangastre candelas

          I fully agree, on both points (MPs represent ALL constituents, and equal sized constituencies based on people living there, for which the most comprehensive data source is the census).  But, the rules have always been on numbers of registered voters.

          I think it would be wiser for Labour to concentrate on making sure everyone is registered, not wasting time, energy and support on trying to keep existing boundaries of unequal size.  The current process will not be stopped before 2015.

  • Anonymous

    I like the logo Mark- it’s quite witty.

    For some reason, reminds me of the cartoon pink panther…

    It gets the message across anyway.

    Jo

  • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

    This is going to be a big problem for Labour’s future.

    The parliamentary wing is becoming a free-floating entity, surviving on momentum derived from past achievements in the constituencies.

    My feeling is that the top table are as embarrassed by the constituency connection nearly as much as they are by the trade union connection. This is why the constituencies are accorded little regard.

    Now that Labour can no longer depend on Murdoch for propaganda support the role of the constituency ground-force becomes more important yet if the current disregard persists the vigour of local branches will diminish even further.

  • Holly

    The Labour plan is to ‘invest’, (by borrowing, because there is not enough coming into the treasury through taxes to pay the already massive outgoings,we are still having to borrow) in jobs in the public sector. Labour reckon this will boost the economy. In the next breath, someone else from Labour says this will be to get youth unemployment down, only this time it will be paid for from a tax on bankers bonuses. Already even you should see the flaws…Hester does not recieve a penny for a couple of years, and who will lend us the money without charging a higher rate of interest, thus adding to the pressure on the taxpayer, or leading to more public sector cuts.
    Then there is the private sector, there are companies sitting on shedloads of money, yet they are reluctant to invest, because of the sovereign debt crisis & unlike Labour this is THEIR money, so are less likely to spend it frivolously.
    Trying to get growth from ‘creating’ jobs in the public sector,might work in the short term, but the extra cost for present & future taxpayers is a price I don’t think is worth it.
    Once the EU nutters get their act together and make the ECB back the Euro, and new agreements for individual countries to decide which employment rules they keep, tailored to their own countries…THEN you will see jobs created.
    This is not just any old ‘Tory’ recession, where one sector’s bubble bursts,
    this is a Labour recession, where the main engine for growth…banking..
     collapsed. On top of that you have individuals with debt, all encouraged by Brown. He absolutely lied to us all..Even you. He told us everything was hunky dory and we believed him. Labour mock Osborne for saying he would share the proceeds of growth, but like millions of us out here, he too did not think a British chancellor would be lying through his teeth when standing at the dispatch box…The rest of the Labour party then went on to elect him leader.
    Miliband & Balls now reckon they are the only people who can govern, yet they were slap bang in the middle of all this as it was happening and are part of the reason it unravelled. Instead of griping at the cuts, try to think of future generations who have to make their way in Britain, I have no children, we are on disability benefits and I understand the worry & anger, but I also understand the problems we face to get our country back to sustaining herself from wealth creators & wealth generating jobs in the private sector, with a much lower dependence on the taxpayer, than jobs in the public sector would.
    I am not offended, just sad that you can’t see further than the here & now.
    We, that’s me & you as well have to build a stronger, more stable economy than one that relies only on finance & the public sector.
     
     
     

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