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Labour Peer suspended over Obama “bounty” allegations (which he denies)

April 15, 2012 11:18 pm

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Labour peer Lord Ahmed has been suspended by the party, pending an investigation into allegations that he offered a £10 million “bounty” for the capture of current US President Barack Obama and former President George W Bush. Allegedly this was in response to the US offering a reward for the capture of Hafiz Muhammad Saeed – founder of the violent extremist group Lashkar-e-Taiba – who is blamed for the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks. Pakistan’s Express Tribune newspaper reported Ahmed as saying:

“If the US can announce a reward of 10 million dollars for the captor of Hafiz Saeed, I can announce a bounty of £10 million on President Obama and his predecessor George Bush.”

A spokesperson for the party said:

“We have suspended Lord Ahmed pending investigation. If these comments are accurate we utterly condemn these remarks which are totally unacceptable. The international community is rightly doing all in its power to seek justice for the victims of the Mumbai bombings and halt terrorism.”

However according to the PA, Ahmed denies the allegations, telling them:

“I never said those words. I did not offer a bounty. I said that there have been war crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan and those people who have got strong allegations against them – George W Bush and Tony Blair have been involved in illegal wars and should be brought to justice. I do not think there’s anything wrong with that.”

Ahmed added:

“If the Labour Party want to suspend me I will deal with the Labour Party. They will have to give me some evidence.”

We’ll bring you more on this as we have it.

Bill Lockhart

Did he also ‘not say’ these words?-

“Ahmed described the bounty on Saeed as “an insult to all Muslims and by
doing so President Obama has challenged the dignity of the Muslim
Ummah,” Express Tribune quoted him as saying.”

Tricky business, this 24-hr global connectivity. Probably best not to say things you’d prefer people back home not to hear- because they *will* hear.
- AlanGiles
  
  Sometimes, for mendacious reasons, people mis-represent what has actually been said. Even on this site, one poster (Arcatra or some such nonsense) keeps trying to pretend I hold views about the London Mayoral election the polar opposite of what they actually are – and even when it has been pointed out to her/him the “mistake” they have continued to repeat it.
  
  If it is the intention of somebody to slur or lie they will do so to suit their own ends, even when the evidence is there in black and white to prove that they are lying – perhaps they are so twisted they manage to convince themselves that is what you said.
  
  I wouldn’t judge Ahmad till the facts (i.e. recorded evidence) is available for us all to hear.
Bill Lockhart

Link to the original article:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/364863/sterling-bounty-offered-for-obama-bush/

““If the US can announce a reward of $10 million for the captor of Hafiz
Saeed, I can announce a bounty of 10 million pounds on President Obama
and his predecessor George Bush,” Lord Nazir said, adding that he would
arrange the bounty at any cost even if he was left with the option of
selling all his personal assets, including his house.”

Seems like a hell of a lot for a journalist to invent.
- Hugh
  
  More worryingly, the delusion was shared by other people who were there.
  
  “He said that we were in favour of denuclearization of the region but it
  should start with Israel. He said that if Iran was attacked, the Muslim
  nation should unite against these powers. He said that the US had fixed
  the head money of Hafiz Saeed purposively to keep Pakistan in defensive
  position. In reverse, he said, I announce 10 million dollars reward
  against Mr George W Bush. He said that he would collect the money
  whether he had to beg in the streets but Bush and Tony Blair should be
  charged with war crimes.”
  
  http://pu.edu.pk/home/section/seminars/1445
GuyM

Another apparent lover of Islamic fundamentalists in the Labour party…… surely not.
Pingback: Who was Lord Ahmed in solidarity with? | Liberal Conspiracy
jaime taurosangastre candelas

Until Labour sorts itself out with a rational, and indeed patriotic if measured response to Islamic extremism, these things will keep on happening. You see it at every level from the London Mayoral candidate revealing himself to be both anti-semitic and a supporter of hardline Islamic fundamentalism (witness the company he keeps), down to ordinary party members being completely blind about the serial fraud perpetuated in the postal votes scam and out-sourcing of gaining of bloc and postal votes from some very dubious “community” figures, which recently back-fired in Bradford West.

Strangely, or not so, Lord Ahmed is a member of the Mirpur community as are so many in Bradford West. Since his elevation to the Lords, he has on multiple occasions taken the side of his religion against the country of his citizenship. it is not surprising that he was so anti-Salman Rushdie, or that in 2007 Lord Ahmed threatened to bring 10,000 Muslims to protest against the Dutchman Geert Wilders who was later murdered, by, unsurprisingly, a Muslim. He also spent a number of weeks advising Gaddafi during the last summer, while British forces were engaged in a UN-mandated operation.No doubt this comment will attract howls of protest from people trying to dance on the head of a pin.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
  
  Anti-Zionist, not anti-semitic. Clear difference.
  
  To my knowledge Wilders is still alive in the Netherlands. Are you confusing him with an earlier populist anti-Muslim, Pim Fortuyn?
  
  You appear very anti-Muslim yourself. I have no time for any religion, but its noticeable that you regularly gush over the positive aspects of Christianity and Zionist Judaism, whilst having a go at Islam. So its quite OK for MP’s who are Zionist to take an uncritical line in favour of Israel, but not acceptable for Muslims to take a pro-Islamic stance?
  
  Seems somewhat biased to me.
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Yes Mike,
    I had Geert Wilders confused with Pim Fortuyn. I will leave my original comment unedited to reflect your correction, I put my hand up on this.
    
    I am not anti-muslim by any stretch. I have hope that others may regard my views as being honestly held, so extend that to others. However, there is a huge disparity between the views that I hold – in which anyone is welcome by me to call my God anything from a pig to a dog’s ear, because He is forgiving and so must I be - and the views of more fundamentalist people, who accept no criticism of any kind whatsoever.
    
    I really do wonder why someone such as yourself with an ex-Christian background and your strongly stated views on your essential nature are so forgiving of fundamentalist Islamists, who by their own public statements want to kill you twice, once for being as they see it an apostate (they’d kill me for that as well), and secondly for not lying with women. This is not a personal remark, it seems to me to be something that they are crystal clear about, and yet you and to be fair many others are prepared to overlook. I also wonder if I expressed views with the “strength” that they do about your essential nature, that you would get most upset with me and accuse me of homophobia.
    - jaime taurosangastre candelas
      
      …and having just checked on a website, you and I both get to be killed by sword cuts, as we are not Muslims (I do however as a Christian get a single cut to the neck, you as an atheist get sliced up rather more slowly). However, you then also get a wall toppled on top of you, as you do not lie with women.
      
      While as metropolitan professionals, we may nervously laugh at the medieval nature of such sanctions, you do have to acknowledge that they remain part of Sharia, and punishments still inflicted in more than 30 countries around the world.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        ….. and I would hope that in time, this will change. But I don’t think it can be enforced by military intervention. The outcome seems to be the reverse.
    - jaime taurosangastre candelas
      
      …there is also the case of the Dutchman who was a relative of the painter van Gogh, who was decapitated in the street by yet another run of the mill Dutch Muslim. Forgive me if I confuse these all of these Dutchmen and their assassins. Let’s not also forget the Danish cartoonist and his editor who both still live their lives under fatwa after those cartoons of Mohammed (perhaps you would like to add a “Peace Be Upon Him” tag to that – certainly Ken would – See http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=26a_1332198759)
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        …. but again, why set out to deliberately upset people? Muslims do not draw pictures of their prophet, and the Muslim tradition of art, for example, is not at all linked to pictures of people. So why do it? What’s the pleasure in deliberately going out to wind people up?
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        You are mistaken twice. The Islamic “ban” on human representation in art is a comparatively recent innovation. There are many extant pictures of Mohammed of Muslim origin. The present taboo is a telling example of Islam becoming more not less extreme over time.
        
        And the deliberate inflaming in the cartoons debacle was done by Muslim clerics in the ME who themselves published cartoons different and more inflammatory from those which had appeared in Denmark. Why set out to upset people indeed?
        
        I take it that your new sensitivity towards members of religious faiths (“why set out to upset people?” means they you regret the comments about the Pope which can be read on your blog. Or is your “sensitivity” reserved solely for the Left’s pet religion?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        I’ll happily discuss the content of any religion and its shortcomings – but there’s a difference between healthy debate and deliberately doing something which doesn’t actually assist debate and just aims to have a go. As I say, I’m atheist. No sympathy for any religion.
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        “there’s a difference between healthy debate and deliberately doing
        something which doesn’t actually assist debate and just aims to have a
        go.”
        
        So this, on your blog, was healthy debate, was it?-
        
        “There really is nothing wrong with the pope that a good heart attack wouldn’t put right.
        
        Loathsome Nazi scumbag. Never did leave the Hitler Youth, did it?”
        
        Inclusive mutlcultural religious sensitivity- the Homfray way.
      - GuyM
        
        No “sympathy” for any religion?
        
        I remember in my science degree we were challenged under scientific philosophy lectures to justify views on religion or atheism
        
        The end result was that it’s clear that as both belief and atheism is based upon “faith” rather than evidence neither side has any moral authority for the other.
        
        Personally I’m fairly convinced that something carries on after death, without being a follow of any religion per se.
        
        Fundamentalists, both religious and atheist to me seem sides of the same coin.
        
        Stating you have “no sympathy” for any religion seems to place you in a fundmentalist atheist camp that doesn’t make much sense.
      - Hugh
        
        “but again, why set out to deliberately upset people?”
        
        Because that’s what Western art, comment and satire regularly sets out to do every day and has done for a few centuries.
        
        ” the Muslim tradition of art, for example, is not at all linked to pictures of people”
        
        It was a Dutch magazine; the Dutch tradition of art is linked to pictures of people (and fruit, as far as I can tell).
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        Pedantic correction- Danish
      - Hugh
        
        Sorry, yes.
      - Hugh
        
        And in which case I’m not so sure about fruit paintings.
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        Pedantic correction- Danish
      - treborc1
        
        Muslims will have to get use to freedoms, I do not live in a Muslim country I live in what use to be a free country, free to discuss faith, to paint and draw faith, big difference about some stupid cartoons to actually allowing an artist to paint or draw what he believes.
        
        we went through our battles with the catholic church hundreds of years ago right up into the 19th century, perhaps the Muslim faith will have to come into the modern world.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
      
      But I’m not tolerant of their views, I think their views are appalling. Just as I think the same of fundamentalist Christians or Jews. However, it does appear to me that Muslims in the UK have far, far more suspicion laid upon them – to the extent that there is clearly a school of thought that does not believe it is possible to be b0th British and a Muslim.
      
      Having lived for four years in a strongly Muslim community – where I can honestly say my neighbours were kind and welcoming – I think that British people find it difficult to understand how attacks on Muslims are perceived. I think I can tell the difference between my former Muslim neighbours and those who kill, but so, so often, the statements made by others make very little distinction.
      
      Its also fair to say that I have no time for liberal interventionism. Countries and people must find their own way, and surely we can see from Iraq, Afghanistan, and the countries of the Arab spring that given the choice many people will choose Islam. I’d rather they opted for secularism, but I think to try and push that upon them is wrong. Also, the enlightenment took a fair while to seep through into Christendom and half of America still wishes it had never happened! Islam won’t stay the same forever, and perhaps change in the Arab countries may lead to a more open Islam.
      
      Finally, I do strongly support the cause of the Palestinian people, who of course have a significant Christian minority, perhaps the worst persecuted of all. The more I find out and have the chance to speak to the Palestinian people, the more convinced I am that Zionism is unacceptable, and the present Israeli state equally so as it is now constituted.
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        “I think I can tell the difference between my former Muslim neighbours and those who kill,”
        
        That’s what Mohammed Siddiq Khan’s neighbours thought too.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        So we should regard all Muslims as potential killers. And, given the Norwegian example, all fundamentalist Christians? Daft.
      - AlanGiles
        
        It seems that intolerance of Islam and Muslims is the one prejudice it is still “decent” and safe to express, and to receive applause for it.
      - Bill Lockhart
        
        Moral relativism and the tolerance of intolerance are betrayals of liberal democracy.
- Peter Barnard
  
  @ Jaime,
  
  “Lord Ahmed was also sentenced in 2008 … for killing a man by dangerous driving.”
  
  No, he wasn’t. He was convicted for dangerous driving alone.
- Mr Chippy
  
  I guess you would likewise condemn all the British Catholics who supported the war in Northern Ireland or the British Jews who supported the creation of Israeli as a Jewish state for taking the side of their religion against the country of their citizenship.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

I’m very suspicious about the phrasing of this statement.

I don’t agree with some of Lord Ahmed’s positions, but I see no particular reason to accept uncritically the statement of the Pakistan Express Tribune

Lord Ahmed knows this is read in the UK and is I think, very unlikely to have said something of this nature.

However, he has every right to refer to the Iraq war as illegal and suggest that both Blair and Bush should be tried. Others may disagree with this view but it is NOT wrong or out of order to express it.
- Hugh
  
  ”Others may disagree with this view but it is NOT wrong or out of order to express it.”
  
  Which is why it seems he wasn’t suspended for that, but for the comments about the bounty and Hafiz Saeed’s bounty being an “insult to all Muslims”. And you’ll note he was “suspended” not “expelled”, presumably giving the opportunity to establish if the reports are correct. If they are (and I see no particular reason to accept uncritically Lord Ahmed’s protestations), then presumably you’ll have no problem with him being kicked out.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
    
    If everyone in the Labour party was kicked out for holding a view considered unacceptable by other members of the Labour party – or by Tories like you – then there wouldn’t be many people left.
    
    Having said that, I think the statement about a bounty was too silly to believe that he said it in those terms.
    - Hugh
      
      I’m still slightly unclear whether you would have a problem with him being kicked out if he did say those words (however silly it may seem), or those about the bounty on Saeed being an insult to all muslims.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        Personally, I don’t think the offering of a bounty was appropriate – but its so often the way the Americans work in the hope of getting people to break ranks. I do question whether this will have the desired effect, though.
        
        No, I don’t think I’d expel him for it, I think its daft more than anything else
      - Hugh
        
        He was evidently talking to an audience with some sympathy for Hafiz Saeed. I think if he did suggest he’d be willing to put up a bounty on Blair or Obama it goes a tad beyond “daft”.
http://twitter.com/ibbyullah ibby

Hope the decision was evidence based rather than a knee-jerk reaction.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

What do you suppose he means by saying he “will deal with the Labour party”? It looks rather threatening, but context is hard to gather from the short quote.
AlanGiles

Wouldn’t it be a better idea to wait to hear if a recording of his alleged remarks surfaces and then everyone can vent their spleen.

So far, no such recording has been broadcast in the U.K. and it would be inconceivable that if he did say thing things he is accused of they would not have been recorded
- Hugh
  
  ” it would be inconceivable that if he did say thing things he is accused of they would not have been recorded”
  
  Why?
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
    
    If they weren’t, then there is no evidence other than one person’s word against another
    - Peter Barnard
      
      Indeed, Mike (” …one person’s word against another.”)
      
      I’m afraid that it’s a fact of life that people, oftentimes, believe what they want to believe what they read in newspapers. No-one contributing to these pages was present at the meeting between Lord Ahmed and the journalist, so none of us knows what was actually said.
      - Hugh
        
        That’s good. We’ll of course not be seeing any criticism following reports about Tories saying anything offensive until the video evidence is in in future.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray
        
        I’m always sceptical about press reports because I’ve been grossly misquoted – in fact I refused to speak to the Daily Mail so they invented a quote from me instead.
      - Hugh
        
        I’m always sceptical of politicians claiming to be misquoted when in trouble.
      - TomFairfax
        
        It’s a bit curious that journalists are quite capable of using cameras as well as audio recording to catch Tory treasurers out, but seem unable to confirm the source of this quote.
        
        Seems like Labour have taken the correct action whilst the veracity of the story is checked.
      - Hugh
        
        I’m not sure how curious it is that two entirely different stories (one an undercover sting, another a report of a public speech), on different continents by entirely different journalists use different methods.
        
        What is curious is that another writer – a press officer at Punjab university – should invent an almost identical story (see elsewhere on this thread).
      - TomFairfax
        
        Are you aware of the term ‘carousel propaganda’? It could be applied to many political stories as well.
        
        In essence loads of stories which all come down to a reference to one source.
        
        The important issue is to distinguish between Primary and Secondary sources of data.
        
        The key issue is whether he really said it or not. Nobody on this thread knows, they rely purely on secondary data.
      - Hugh
        
        I am now, but it’s not a single source: it’s two separate reports of two separate events. So it looks like we either have a conspiracy or he said it.
      - TomFairfax
        
        Sorry Hugh replied elsewhere.
      - Peter Barnard
        
        @ Hugh,
        
        I’m not sure how you have arrived at your conclusion following my remark.
        
        “People” includes all sorts of political persuasions. As it happens, I normally try not to comment on what is said in newspapers, whether by Labour or Conservative
        
        A few years ago, the Sunday Times proclaimed the “discovery of Hitler’s diaries.” They were wrong.
        
        In 1987 (if my memory serves me correctly), the Sun made some disgraceful allegations about the behaviour of Liverpool football supporters at the Hillsborough disaster. They were wrong, too.
        
        It also happens that, as a class, journalists are down there with politicians when it comes to “trust.”
      - Peter Barnard
        
        Correction : “… what is said …” should be ” … what is attributed …”
      - Hugh
        
        Actually, the Mori poll suggests they rank a little above politicians, which strikes me as about right.
        
        http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2818/Doctors-are-most-trusted-profession-politicians-least-trusted.aspx
      - Peter Barnard
        
        @ Hugh,
        
        ” … down there …” is not precise and some latitude is implicit?
      - Hugh
        
        Yes, you’re quite right; I just couldn’t resist pointing to that finding.
      - AlanGiles
        
        “A few years ago, the Sunday Times proclaimed the “discovery of Hitler’s diaries.” They were wrong.”
        
        I think that was Hugh Trevor-Roper caught with egg on his face. I give you my word when I heard the Sunday Radio 4 press review at the time, I just knew it was false based on one “quote” they read.
        
        It was “Himmler has been up to his tricks with women again”.
        
        I can’t imagine Hitler sounding that “English”.
        
        By conincidence Hillsborough was 23 years ago yesterday – April 15th 1989. On Merseyside the Sun is still hated by many people for their unfounded allegations.
      - Peter Barnard
        
        Correct, Alan, re Professor Trevor-Roper ; however, the responsibility is that of the ST because they took the decision to publish.
        
        Well-spotted re the quote. Having said that, I don’t suppose your imagination would have stretched to John Prescott playing croquet ….
        
        Re the Sun and Merseyside – Mike H will confirm that many (most?) newsagents still refuse to put the Sun on their shelves.
      - AlanGiles
        
        Hello Peter. That quote made it sound as if they were trying to turn Adolf into Hylda Baker (in her “Nellie Pledge” days) she was always berating her brother for his womanizing followed by “the dirty stop-out, it’s quarter past….. I must get a little hand put on this watch”.
        
        On the more serious matter of the Sun, I think it a great tribute to the people of Merseyside that they have never forgiven or forgotten the dreadful slurs made by that repulsive “newspaper”
    - Hugh
      
      Yes, but plainly he might have said these things without being recorded. As Ahmed’s comments were at a conference it shouldn’t be just one person against the other, whether they were recorded or not.
  - AlanGiles
    
    In the world of journalism these days it would be unheard of for a reporter not to have an audio or visual recording device with him/her. Even an interview with a journalist from a local newspaper will be recorded
    - Hugh
      
      First, that’s untrue. A lot of journalists still rely on shorthand. I believe you still have to have it for NCTJ qualifications. Second, it was comments at a conference, as far as I can gather.
      - AlanGiles
        
        Hugh do you really think a conference hall wouldn’t have recording facilities?
        
        I was once some years ago interviewed for an arcane technical magazine, and the interviewer produced a tape recorder (“did I mind?” he was kind enough to enquire) of course I didn’t and he taped the interview, as well as taking notes as well.
        
        Until this story gets confirmed one way or the other it is obvious Labour have to suspend Ahmad. Obviously if the reports are true, then I have no doubt he would be expelled. But with all due respect, I always thought that we followed the principle of innocent until proved guilty?
      - Hugh
        
        I was some years ago and for some years an editor of arcane technical magazines. I’ve also been to plenty of conferences that aren’t recorded.
      - AlanGiles
        
        Perhaps it was the case that the young man who came to talk to me was hearing words that he had never heard before (I had just dropped a heavy instrument on my foot – just joking!), but in 2012 I find it hard to believe a conference of the sort Ahmad was taking part in NOBODY had thought to bring along a recording device – God knows there are enough different media to chose from thedse days.
        
        All these hours later – where is the evidence?
      - Hugh
        
        ”a conference of the sort Ahmad was taking part in”
        
        “A reception arranged in his honour by the business community of Haripur, Pakistan”?
        
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17723890
        
        It’s not the opening of the Olympics is it?
        
        Furthermore, if anyone recorded it, it would be likely to be the organisers of the event, who are obviously supporters of his. They may even be friends. Why would they release it?
      - Hugh
        
        And all these hours later, here’s another source under the impression that Ahmed did indeed say these things:
        
        http://pu.edu.pk/home/section/seminars/1445
        
        “He said that if Iran was attacked, the Muslim nation should unite against these powers. He said that the US had fixed the head money of Hafiz Saeed purposively
        to keep Pakistan in defensive position. In reverse, he said, I announce
        10 million dollars reward against Mr George W Bush. He said that he
        would collect the money whether he had to beg in the streets but Bush
        and Tony Blair should be charged with war crimes.”
      - Peter Barnard
        
        Just a minute here, Hugh – the reference in the article at the top of the page says that the remerks were made at a “reception arranged in Lord Ahmed’s honour by the business community” on Friday ; your reference in your comment says that the remarks were made at a student thingy on Tuesday.
        
        So tell me, when were the remarks made – Tuesday or Friday?
      - Peter Barnard
        
        Also, Hugh – something doesn’t add up, big-time? Tuesday or Friday? Business community or students?
      - Hugh
        
        Or both.
      - AlanGiles
        
        Or Neither. If he said these things six days ago, it has taken all this time for it to get out?
        
        Paraphrasing but was it Jim Callaghan who said a lie could be half way round the world before the truth had got it’s boots on?
      - Hugh
        
        I’ve replied above.
      - Peter Barnard
        
        Indeed, it could have been both. However, given the import of the “statement”, I am very surprised that Tuesday’s remarks went, well, “unremarked.”
        
        These bl**dy boxes …
      - Hugh
        
        I’ve replied aboce.
      - Hugh
        
        Yes, well spotted. Two possible explanations:
        
        1) He’s been using the ‘I’ll put a bounty on Bush’ line as part of a stump speech at various events during his trip.
        
        2) Two writers (one of them evidently a press officer of the University of the Punjab) have invented exactly the same libel – most likely as part of a Zionist conspiracy, I’ll wager…
UKAzeri

I would find it very surprising if it is proved that Ahemd said these things. Howevr i also doubt that the party would suspend him without some concrete evidence …
the sooner we see it the better…
Hugh

@Peter Barnard/ Alan Giles

It’s not very surprising that it went unnoticed for days – plenty of stories go that way, particularly when comments are made at obscure events. It’s certainly less surprising that writers with no apparent connection invented identical stories.
- AlanGiles
  
  “It’s not very surprising that it went unnoticed for days -”
  
  Not stories involving senior politicians. That is very unusual indeed – look at the stupid casus belii concocted about the Livingstone PPB last week (it has to be said mainly by right wing “labour” supporters). Ed Miliband’s mistyping of a vowel of the name of a long defunct childrens programme on a Twitter account was global within hours (again fuelled by some Labour right-wing malcontents as well as the Tories and Tory press).
  
  And my main point: for Ahmad to have said all it is claimed he said would have taken some time – certainly time enough for somebody in the audience to get out their mobile phone and record at least part of it.
  
  Where is the evidence?
  - Hugh
    
    The evidence is two reports from different sources having him say roughly the same thing at two separate events. Where’s your evidence of a conspiracy to undermine him, which is what this would constitute (and a bloody strange way of going about it, placing a story on the University of Punjab’s message board)?
    
    Could it be, perhaps, that with certain audiences in Pakistan such comments aren’t considered particularly shocking?
    
    I have trouble not laughing at the idea you would be demanding video evidence before commenting were a Tory the subject of such a story.
- TomFairfax
  
  Interestingly, he suggests the Pakistan President should follow Obama’s lead in the second story you referenced, rather different from a $10 million bounty on his head.
  
  It’s where the stories agree that might be more worthy of study.
  
  Bush and Blair probably have so many detractors already, that that part wouldn’t have been a story without the addition of Obama to make it seem different.
  - Hugh
    
    ” Interestingly, he suggests the Pakistan President should follow Obama’s
    lead in the second story you referenced, rather different from a $10
    million bounty on his head.”
    
    I’m not sure logical inconsistency on the part of Lord Ahmed makes the story less likely to be accurate. We’re talking about a man who reckons Salman Rushdie has blood on his hands because an islamist murdered his Japanese translator.
    
    And while you might conceivably be right that it is only the suggestion of a bounty on Obama’s head that might cause disquiet on this board, I think more widely it is still frowned on for a peer to propose a bounty on even Republican ex Presidents.
Bill Lockhart

Ahmed squirming like a hooked fish on C4 news just now: he admits offering to raise money for a ‘legal case’ against Blair and Bush but not offering a “bounty”. Sure, sure. And a wonderful bit of party loyalty at the end- asked about Galloway’s invititation to join “Respect”, Ahmed replied “George is a great man”.
- Dan Judelson
  
  Bill, I watched the same report. (http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/160412/clipid/160412_4on_briefs_16 – whole programme here, they may put up just the Ahmed report in a while)
  
  I had initially felt Ahmed had been crude and clumsy, but the tape shown by C4 and translated for them showed it was the reporting yesterday that was clumsy. Ahmed said he would be prepared to raise money to pay to get Bush and Blair to the ICC in the Hague. Hardly the same as a bounty, and certainly not the same as the “price on their heads” hyperbole of yesterday – even if one disagrees with the aim.
  
  I agree with you about the Galloway drivel though.
- Dan Judelson
  
  Bill, I watched the same report. (http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/160412/clipid/160412_4on_briefs_16 – whole programme here, they may put up just the Ahmed report in a while)
  
  I had initially felt Ahmed had been crude and clumsy, but the tape shown by C4 and translated for them showed it was the reporting yesterday that was clumsy. Ahmed said he would be prepared to raise money to pay to get Bush and Blair to the ICC in the Hague. Hardly the same as a bounty, and certainly not the same as the “price on their heads” hyperbole of yesterday – even if one disagrees with the aim.
  
  I agree with you about the Galloway drivel though.

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