Fabian Summer Conference – Liveblog

June 30, 2012 11:37 am

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18.00: And as soon as we’re back – the liveblog is over again. Thanks to those who stuck with us today – and have a great weekend.

17.35: Harriet Harman says reaching out to the Lib Dems is wrong headed, a disastrous political message and suggests a lack of confidence.

17.25: Harriet Harman giving a passionate speech about Labour fighting everywhere in the country. Labour needs to build up the share of the vote, as well as seats, she argues. She says if she could she should ban the phrase “paper candidate” – instead they should be called “pioneer candidates”.

17.23: The liveblog returns – apologies for the hiatus – I was chairing a panel on how Labour gains a majority, which featured some brilliant contributions from Steve Hart, Margaret Curran, Andrew Adonis and Peter Kelner. Harriet Harman now closing the conference.

15.25: Miliband’s Q&A session ends with a standing ovation. And now he’s chatting with a young person who asked for 10 minutes of his time during the session:

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15.08: Miliband acknowledges crisis of working class representation in Labour Party – says party needs to look like the party we seek to serve.

15.02: Miliband slams the idea of bringing back O’levels and CSEs. Says “it says everything you need to know about this government an this education secretary”.

14.55: Miliband says we need an EU based on growth not austerity – but an EU referendum not a priority for now.

14.44: Miliband refusing to be bullied by the banking sector. Says that banks threatening to leave the country can’t be an excuse for allowing criminal behaviour. He says pre-2008 banks said there was too much regulation, but there wasn’t enough. Not mincing his words here.

14.41: Miliband says he wants to get to the reason why bankers feel they are “above the law”.

14.28: I don’t say this lightly, but that was one of the best speeches I’ve heard Ed Miliband give – which considering the short timescale in which it could have been written is impressive. I’ll be writing a more in depth response this afternoon. But next up – a Q&A.

14.25: Miliband also calls for ordinary workers on renumeration committees of top banks, as well as greater competition in banking to challenge the big 4.

14.23: “Why is it when you shoplift £50 you go straight to jail, but when you fiddle and lie and cheat you get a slap on the wrist – if that?” says Ed. That’s “double standards”, he says.

14.20: Ed says there must be a “full, open and independent inquiry” into the banking sector. He says – to applause – that the British people won’t accept anything less, and that a light must be shone into all corners of the banking sector – especially the dark ones.

14.13: Miliband says the current leadership of Barclays “can’t take them through this crisis”. However he goes on to say that this isn’t about individuals it’s about flawed systems.

14.11: Ed M says this moment must be used to act, or problems in the banking sector will continue. He links the rogue trader defence to the rogue reporter defence at News International – and says both are unbelieveable.

14.00: Miliband says he wants to speak about banking “because the moment demands it”. He also attacks “lying and cheating” followed by celebrations over Bollinger.

13.55: We’re back after lunch, next up is John Denham, then the main event – a brief Ed Miliband speech (expect a focus on Barclays) – followed by a Q&A.

13.00: Cruddas shrugs off the debate about the unions and Progress. He says it has passed him by as he’s more interested in what is happening to the country.

12.46: Jon Cruddas attacks the governments cynical culture war against some of the weakest in society, and the appalling situation of them being forced to pay for the mistakes of bankers. A big round of applause there – Cruddas isn’t rowing back on his views on welfare.

12.40: James Morris says that the “Should Labour move left or right?” debate is interminable for the public, and that’s why the Sun’s Red Ed attack didn’t work.

12.27: Cruddas compares Tony Blair to miles Davis “the early stuff was good” but the later stuff “left a lot to be desired…”

12.24: “I’ve always seen the Labour party as a collision between the Fabian Tradition and the ILP tradition…and I’m not a Fabian, says Cruddas.

12.21: Now the much awaited contribution from Labour’s new policy chief Jon Cruddas. In the last five years I’ve seen Cruddas on dozens of panels. But there’s something different today – he’s smiling much more. Must be enjoying the new job.

12.15: Brilliant anecdote from Anthony Painter who says he overheard teenagers on the bus talking about politics. One said they didn’t know what Labour stood for. I think even those of us who are deeply tribal have felt that before…

12.13: Pollster James Morris notes that left aligned voters are concerned about immigration whilst right aligned are concerned about bankers. Evidently there are issues that cut across the political spectrum…

12.05: Former Gordon Brown aide Kirsty McNeill describes the Labour Party at times as “like fans of an Indie band who don’t want them to have a stadium tour” – in short, we don’t welcome new people. I couldn’t agree more.

11.52: Managed to ask a question in the Q&A about selections, which regular readers will know is something I’m passionate about. If we’re selecting 100 candidates this year (which I’m in favour of) – don’t we need to tackle the problems with stitch ups and favouritism in selections? McNicol argues that during his time as General Secretary selections have been open and transparent. Perhaps – but we’re still a million miles from a fair selection process.

11.44: McNicol also says the number of emails that members get is one of the biggest complaints that he gets as General Secretary.

11.37: Lots of mentions from Iain McNicol for the US godfather of community organising Saul Alinsky. Not surprising – one of his former students Arnie Graff is now Ed Miliband’s community organising guru.

11.30: First up today is Labour’s General Secretary Iain McNicol. He says the way Labour campaigns and works must change – and says 1997 is the past “as dead as the age of steam engines and quill pens”. He says he wants to modernise the party.

11.25: Morning everyone. I’ve just arrived at the Fabian Society Summer conference (half an hour late – thanks TFL/Boris). Over the course of today I’ll be bringing you the highlights of today’s sold out (standing room only) event.

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  • treborc

    New Labour is dead as a steam train,  then bury the corpse because he’s still walking around looking for a roll in government, including maybe leader again. And I’m not to sure Miliband is big enough or strong enough to stop him.

  • Alan Giles


    One said they didn’t know what Labour stood for.”

    What DOES Labour stand for now?

    Answer: Just about anything – provided it doesn’t upset tabloid readers.

  • http://twitter.com/bencobley Ben Cobley

    Re. the Anthony Painter anecdote, I had a similar experience a month or so ago, listening to a couple of bright-eyed students talking about politics on a train. One was Tory leaning – something you could barely admit openly in my days as a student – on account of she thought they stood for people who were ambitious and worked hard. The other reckoned that the Tories were only on the side of rich people, but he did not openly say he was pro-Labour and was on the back foot in the conversation despite seeming pretty confident generally.

    It seems quite similar to what Anthony was pointing towards – that with Labour there isn’t anything really positive to grab hold of and identify with for people. Since the early days of Blair – liking Cruddas’ Miles Davis comparison by the way – enthusiasm has been sorely lacking.

    In my view, it’s time for the party to make a very public new pitch on what its values are, if possible involving the members and wider public in the process – not least to get a bit of excitement into our politics…

    • John Dore

      Ben agree with you completely there.

    • Alan Giles

      Funnily enough, it was mid period Miles most people remembered as the golden years: his first records were made in 1945 partnering Charlie Parker in the latters quintet – but after Dizzy Gillespie and Kenny Dorham he sounded very jejune at that time. Early Miles (45-52) gave way to a period of “personal problems” and he made his comeback at the 1954 Newport Festival, and for the rest of the 50s and into the 60s made one groundbreaking, well received album after another (, Workin’, Relaxin’, Miles Ahead, Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, In A Silent Way) after a hiatus in the 70s he came back in the 80s – and – this is important – despite what Jon Cruddas said, it wasn’t that his work “left a lot to be desired”, the fact is he had left his early audiences and his earlier work behind him and embarked on “jazz rock”. That work was as good, technically,  as the earlier Prestige/Columbia material (Miles was never the most secure player technique wise, though he was a master of the Harmon mute). In other words the final phase of Miles career (1978-1990) was really catering to a different, possibly younger, audience. So early Miles fans, on the whole, shunned his later work or damned it with faint praise. A lot of the new fans didn’t even know about the classic quintets with Rollins, Coltrane, Mobley etc.

      In a sense then Cruddas is right: Early Tone was jejune;  ”Bambi” Blair, “my government will be purer than pure”, the mid period stuff is what everyone remembers and enjoys and the later work caters to an entirely different audience, and that can’t be said of Blair: he is hardly likely to enthuse the very young and his audience – unlike Miles – will continue to be Conservative Labourites or conservative Labourites, and he won’t be doing much but preaching to the converted. Miles went forward never looking back, much as his fans wanted him to. Blair, on the other hand, or at least his audience, dreams of 1997 again. Miles would never have gone back to “My FunnyValentine” in the 1980s, but all Blair can do is play his greatest hits for his ageing fans.

      • treborc

        The problem is unless Miliband can show he’s got something to offer, which would be different then the Tories, people are just not going to be interested.

        The Tories are killing themselves, yet labours not doing much to help them, in fact they keep sounding very much like the Tories did when they came to power.

      • http://twitter.com/bencobley Ben Cobley

        Serious props for the jazz knowledge Alan.

        I think though on Blair you, like a lot of others, let reflexively negative sentiment overcome memory and/or judgement.

        I am probably going to get vilified for saying it, but what was really, genuinely great about Blair pre-97 was the excitement and positivity he injected into Labour politics. He seemed to be enjoying it – and people liked that.

        There was also all that stuff about “stakeholder capitalism” via Will Hutton and also the influence of John Macmurray to keep geeks like me happy.

        We all know what happened afterwards, and a lot of it wasn’t good. I don’t think however that justifies not recognising the positive aspects. It is characteristic of the worst of left-wing politics for me, this sort of unerring sourness, vituperation and moral certitude.

        I don’t share Blair’s politics for the most part, but I did and still do like the freshness and dynamism he brought to the scene. That stuff matters.

        • AlanGiles

          I think, Ben, that with Blair, anticipation was half the pleasure if I may say so. Yes there were great hopes (“a new day has dawned, has it not?”), prior to coming to government he was going to renationalise the railways……. he was so aghast at Gillian Shepherd’s Job Seekers Allowance, he was going to repeat that…….. Two things which never came to pass. And being a Saturday I am being generous in not rehearsing any more of his misses. I suppose,  to take the jazz analogy further, the Minimum Wage is Blair’s “Kind of Blue” (or Louis’ “West End Blues” if you are a traditionalist or Don Ellis’s “Electric Bath” if you are a modernist!).

          Blair always reminded me of one of those perfectly pleasant people you meet on holiday and say “if you are ever passing our way, do drop in”, and you say that knowing you live at Lands End and he lives at John O’Groats, nither of you drive,  so you never think it will happen. One day it does, and as you open the door your face falls when he tells you he has come to stay for a few days. You heave a sigh of relief when he goes, which is what I did on June 27th 2007. I wouldn’t want him back for another stay.

        • robertcp

          The problem with Blair is that the did not have any political views, so he just around making vacuous statements that nobody could possibly disagree with.   I voted for Blair to be leader but I had lost most of my enthusiasm by 1997.  I did not know what the hell he was on about most of the time!

          On a more positive note, Ed M is doing a good job and has put Labour in with a good chance of winning in 2015. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      I would urge caution at the thought of a new Big Idea. Ed has pursued a clear pattern of ‘slow burn’ and it is paying off – and will have more lasting effect than a big society style gimmick. The theme of irresponsible capitalism and the need to restore morality . values, however you want to phrase it, is hitting home and events have proved him absolutely right. Cruddas also shares these values.

      I recall Anthony painter despairingly referring to Ed’s approach as Blue Labour (ethical socialism) crossed with Compass. Yes. that’s about it. 

      • http://twitter.com/bencobley Ben Cobley

        I think you’re right for the most part Mike. Ed has been doing well with the ‘irresponsible capitalism’ theme as you say. Trouble is there is not much of a positive narrative – our specific proposals are pretty much tinkering around the edges.

        I don’t think we should be producing a blitz of policies. I just think we should make some pretty bold and positive statements about what we are for and about, as an institution. These would be pretty general – like ‘For the many not the few’.

        Such things may seem obvious to people who’ve been in the party for donkeys’ years, but for outsiders and relative newcomers like me, it really isn’t clear what the Labour Party actually thinks it is here for. This leads one to other conclusions, my favourite being that the party is a continuous battle and negotiation between interest groups, conducted mostly behind closed doors.

        • robertcp

          I disagree.  All of this positive narrative stuff leaves me cold and we had enough of it with Blair.  He turned out to be a mad warmonger!

  • Daniel Speight

    “I’ve always seen the Labour party as a collision between the Fabian
    Tradition and the ILP tradition…and I’m not a Fabian, says Cruddas.

    There are times that Cruddas is very,very good.

    Brilliant anecdote from Anthony Painter who says he overheard teenagers
    on the bus talking about politics. One said they didn’t know what Labour
    stood for.

    I hope Anthony Painter didn’t try to give them the answer, as then they would still have no idea.

    • treborc

      Or they be trying to join Progress.

  • Daniel Speight

    The last two speeches by Ed Miliband give me hope that Labour really is changing. I still have my fingers crossed though.

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