IDS isn’t just out of touch, he’s in la la land

June 14, 2012 2:54 pm

The retreat from Compassionate Conservatism is well and truly under way. David Cameron was just a year into his leadership when he decided to embrace the great cause of eradicating child poverty. It was, he said; “an economic waste and a moral disgrace.”

Now, his government has decided that the best way to tackle the problem is to run away from it.

When Labour came to office in 1997, we inherited some of the worst rates of child poverty anywhere in the developed world.  During the Conservative’s last government, the rate had child poverty had doubled.

That is why we set about with such vigour introducing new programmes to get parents back to work, introducing tax credits to make sure work actually paid, raising child benefit, and yes, widening provision of free school meals. As Churchill once said, we believed that there are few better investments a country can make than putting milk into babies.

Why did we do this? Because we believed that one of the greatest, richest nations on earth could not be scarred by such an evil. And because we believed that a parent’s love – and ambition – for their children and their family is the absolute bed rock of a good society.

Labour may not have halved the incredible rate of child poverty we inherited by 2010  – the middle of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression. But we lifted almost a million children out of relative poverty. Between 1998/99 and 2009/10, the number of children living in absolute poverty fell by 2 million. On any measure that is progress.

Once upon a time the Tories said they liked this kind of thing. That is why in 2006, David Cameron said; ‘the Conservative Party recognises, will measure and will act on relative poverty.”

No more. Today Iain Duncan Smith is in full-scale retreat. Suddenly the government want to move the goal posts.

And we know why. The government’s plan for welfare reform is a disaster.

So many people – parents included – have been put on the dole that in some communities – the poorest communities – there are nearly 50 people chasing every job. Female unemployment is now at a record high.

Cuts to tax credits mean that hundreds of thousands of families are now better off on benefits – trapping them in poverty.

And the Universal Credit scheme, which promised so much, is now subject to emergency delays and locks in cuts to childcare that mean many parents simply cannot afford to go out to work. I suspect the government knows that Universal Credit will not actually increase the number of hours parents can work, which is why ministers are refusing to publish the business case.

The result?

The IFS predicts 400,000 children will fall into relative poverty over the course of the parliament. And Oxfam say today, this government has created a perfect storm leaving thousands of families at sea.

Let me be blunt. You can add as many bells and whistles as you like to your measure of child poverty. But you cannot escape the bottom line. You cannot camouflage a simple test which is this. Are too many parents being forced to raise their families on a level of income that is too far below the level enjoyed by the rest of society?

It’s a measure accepted across the developed world and Europe. We should accept it in Britain.

The truth is Iain Duncan Smith isn’t just out of touch, he’s in la la land. He tells hard-pressed families to simply get a new job. What planet is he on? There are five people chasing every vacancy. He has become the Marie Antoinette of British politics. While parents struggle to juggle to bills, he says; ‘let them eat cake’.

Liam Byrne MP is the shadow welfare secretary

  • AlanGiles


    IDS isn’t just out of touch, he’s in la la land”

    It must be a comfort for him then that he has Liam Byrne and Frank Field as travelling companions.

    • http://twitter.com/robertsjonathan Jonathan Roberts

      ha.  As soon as I saw Liam’s name I thought ‘oh God, Alan’s going to have a field day!’
      :)

      • AlanGiles

        A FRANK Field day perhaps Jon? :-)

        Honest to God Byrne annoys me the way he tries to face both ways at once.  He must be a contortionist.

        Elsewhere it seems the party are looking for volunteers for voluntary redundency.

        Would’nt it be great if Byrne did a “Captain Oates”?

        • James

          Byrne is more the type to go cannibal and devour his comrades than for a walk in the snow to try to save their lives…

  • SR819

    If you feel this way, why are you cutting unemployment benefits, disability allowances, housing benefits etc that will exacerbate child poverty? This is one of the main problems with the Labour Party at the moment. You criticise the Tories (rightly) for their right wing policies that are hurting the poor, but then when questioned what you would do differently, simply tinker around the edges. You’re still obsessed with placating “hard working” families while ignoring the long term unemployed. You’re focusing on the middle classes even though the ones suffering from the cuts are the working class living in areas of extreme poverty and deprivation. Here’s a suggestion: how about you start representing the people the Labour Party was set up to represent: the working classes and stop worrying about what the middle class Daily Mail readers will think.

    You should be bold and say, “no, we’re not going to reduce social expenditures” and instead look to expand the welfare state, increasing unemployment benefits, providing more support to the disabled and greater assistance to the long-term unemployed and help them find a job. We should oppose the means-testing that is becoming a larger part of the benefits system and promote greater universality of benefits. These are the policies of will reduce child poverty, not snake oil suggestions that bully the unemployed into sub-minimum wage jobs or internships where they are exploited as cheap labour.

    • treborc1

       No thanks I do not want any more benefits, I’m already a scrounger work shy, if labour ups the benefits what next, I hate to think.

  • Mike Homfray

    IDS has got this one badly wrong. There are issues about measuring relative poverty and this isn’t perfect but the idea that poverty isn’t primarily and overwhelmingly about not having enough money is daft.
    However we are a long way from getting this one right ourselves. I think we should put a halt on the endless round of reforms and look carefully at where the problems with the current system are. Let’s not pretend that the private sector can or will provide work for long term unemployed people or that a means tested system won’t have some inbuilt disincentives.
    But most of all let’s get rid of the loser/scrounger rhetoric. And all the work done by Purnell and Freud should be binned. It is poison

  • SR819

    Yeah the “deserving” and “undeserving” poor rhetoric has to go. Tim Montgomery at Con Home is trying to promote the idea of a “working class conservatism” that champions the so called “striving” classes, but we should NOT go down that road. The Labour Party is there for the poorest people in society, and if we look to champion the so called strivers whose main motivation is to enter the bourgeois class, we’ll lose our soul and what we stand for.

    The “scroungers” are a victim of society, not their life choices, and we should be brave and promote that message to counter Tory lies about the unemployed.

    • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

      Well said

    • James3010

       this post is what drives me mad about what Labour has become. “every-ones a victim” “it’s society’s fault” benefits for all.
      Like it or not there IS a differnce between the “deserving” and “undeserving” “poor” to use your phrase. I am more than happy to see taxpayers money help those willing to help themselves or those who simply cannot but i do object to “scroungers” and they DO exist and are not victims. I suggest you read the Beveridge report that the welfare state was founded upon to slay the The five giants on the road to reconstruction of  Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness.
      here’s a link
       http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/19_07_05_beveridge.pdf

      When a system of benefit is set up such that idleness is better paying than work something has gone wrong, we can debate how to fix it but throwing money at it trapping yet more generations in the poverty of benefits to sooth your conscience that you are virtuous the wiked tories arnt and the “poor” cant by work ” enter the bourgeois class” is both wrong and immoral!

      • AlanGiles

        A few comments, only:

        It has become considerably harder to obtain state benefits in recent years – the criteria gets ever more challenging (we have as I said the other day the hideous situation where, under the Freud/Purnell reforms of 2009, people in the latter stages of terminal illness, have been declared as fit for wotk by the ATOS halfwits.

        There always have been, and always will be, that minority who abuse the system, and a bit like cyber fraud, if somebody is determined to do  it, they will.

        Frankly and crudely, Duncan-Smith and Byrne are two cheeks of the same arse, and for Byrne to pretend this great compassion is an insult to the intelligence of every reader of Labour List.

        There are over 2 million people unemployed –  past a certain age even the most robust of these people find it harder to obtain work, and for people who are disabled, or mentally or physically ill will find it even harder. Despite what the Daily Express and Daily Mail tell you, benefit rates are not high.

        Purnell, Grayling and Duncan-Smith all under the spell of the lunatic David Freud, who is to poverty and welfare what Andrew Adonis is to all-in wrestling.

        • John Dore

          Would that be the feckless Alan?

      • James

        “When a system of benefit is set up such that idleness is better paying than work something has gone wrong…”

        Something has gone wrong but it isn’t that benefit levels have become too high. What has gone wrong is that the wages of millions of citizens have become too low to allow them to rent a home, support themselves and their families and enjoy a half-decent life based on their earnings without top-ups from the state. Benefits are not too high it’s wages that are too low because too many people have been forced to accept part-time or temporary employment work or work attracting a minimum wage far too low to ever be considered to be an adequate living wage sufficient to support an individual let alone a family.

        The way forward is not to pursue further reductions in already too low benefits until claimants fall into actual privation and destitution, which won’t “drive them into jobs” as Liam Byrne himself once suggested, because the surfeit of jobs necessary to absorb hordes of unwaged men and women into gainful employment in the private sector don’t and won’t ever exist in sufficient quantity in all probability, but to try to boost growth and wage levels generally and to support those excluded from that growing economy by fair and sensible benefit levels adequate to preserve their health and well being until they can play more active roles if and when suitable situations become available. 

        More jobs with better wages for the multitude that need them is what we should be aiming at not turning the clock back to generate more poverty and more ill health and more homelessness and more pain and misery amongst millions of innocent people temporarily not needed by commerce and industry.

        We should try to do this because it’s  right and because…

        There but for the grace of God…

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

          This is a very simplistic analysis: wages and benefits in the UK are, in absolute terms, amongst the highest in the world; the reason why they are “too low” is that the cost of living in the UK is commensurately high.

          The paradox of how you can increase wages or benefits without increasing the price of business output (thus nullifying your wage/benefit increase) needs to be addressed.

          • James

            You reckon the UK has some of the highest benefit levels in the world relatively speaking? Not according to the following article: 

            http://euwelfarestates.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/world-ranking-in-unemployment-benefit.html

            The gross replacement rate during the first year of unemployment, i.e., the ratio of unemployment benefits a worker receives relative to the worker’s last gross earnings, puts Great Britain in 46th place out of 51 countries sandwiched between Albania (above) and Brazil(below)! Personally I  wouldn’t say that UK welfare benefits are that generous by any means relatively speaking which in real terms is all that matters to the individuals concerned. It doesn’t matter one whit that in absolute terms that a single person’s Jobseeker’s Allowance would be a fortune to a nomad eking out an existence in the Namibian Desert; all that matters to Jobseeker’s Allowance recipients  is what spending power that benefit affords them in the country where it is claimed

            Relative poverty does exist and is a fact of life for many.

            Sadly.

            I have always thought that housing costs are the biggest fly in the ointment as far as the economy goes. It is often simply impossible to move from one area to another in order to take modestly paid work because affordable housing suitable for individuals and families is unobtainable. If the social housing stock had been or is massively boosted throughout the country with rents pegged at sensible, affordable levels (not 80% of comparable market rates) people would more easily be able to move around the country to take up positions and jobs and live in good quality housing housing with rents that are commensurate with the wages their tenants can earn. 

            The market will never, ever solve the housing crises – we are all going to see this over the next several years – nor reduce any of the many social and economic problems associated with this crises while all solutions are always expected to be motivated by self-interest and private profit. While rents remain scarcely cheaper than mortgages on the same properties, because demand for rented housing outstrips housing supply, these problems will continue to persist and claims for housing benefit continue to increase indefinitely.

            Labour could have massively expanded the social housing stock during its first two terms, relatively cheaply before the housing bubble inflated land, labour and material costs, but chose – and I do mean chose – not to. This was a terrible error that we are all having to live with to this day. 

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

            James you misread my post: 
            wages and benefits in the UK are, in absolute terms, amongst the highest in the world.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

            Perhaps I should add to this to also point out my comment further down where I already agree with the idea of relative poverty.

            Your points on housing are relevant – it seems no government will openly make policy to reduce voters housing wealth fearing the repercussions.  The most challenging question to me however is “why is it so much more expensive to live in the UK” – clearly taxation and the near-universality of benefits must play a part, alongside wages earned and the inflationary measures you mention.

          • James

            Apologies. I misunderstood you. My bad.

      • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

        And If where going to mention Beveridge, please don’t forget he was a FULL supporter of Eugenics Ideology, I don’t want any part of that thank you very much, sadly we are seeing this coming into politics now…

  • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

    Not only is IDS Moving the goalposts on child poverty he’s doing it on disability also, trying to redefine what disability is through his Eugenics bases assessment programme being run by Atos, the very company that the wonderful Labour Party introduced to disabled people way back, the Labour Party must be so proud?

    Labour have nothing to be smug about, they are as guilty as any of the political parties, they have their hands in some very dodgy dealings, anyone heard of UNUM? I wonder why the Labour Party refuses to answer my questions over their involvement with this corrupt company?

    http://www.atosvictimsgroup.co.uk

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      I agree that Labour have a lot of apologising and re-thinking to do. Purnell knowingly consorted with a Tory peer – and don’t try and tell me he wasn’t aware of Freud’s politics – and we need to dump all that emerged from that mistaken process

      • John Dore

        No we don’t, only the left think this way. You don’t own the party, you just think you do with a huge dollop of self righteous arrogance to go with it..

        • derek

          Say if it ain’t Dorsal Fin John swimming on by.If the flipper fits wear it?

    • treborc1

      Here you go.

      Professor Sir Mansel Aylward CB MD FRCP FFOM FFPM

      Professor Sir Mansel Aylward CB was appointed as Chair of Public Health Wales in 2009.   He is also Director of the Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research at Cardiff University.
      The Centre extends knowledge and understanding of the psychosocial,
      economic and cultural factors that influence health, illness, recovery,
      rehabilitation and reintegration into rewarding work.

      From 2005, Professor Sir Mansel Aylward was Chair of the Wales Centre
      for Health, one of the bodies taken into Public Health Wales in 2009.   From 1996 to April 2005 he was Chief Medical Adviser, Medical Director and Chief Scientist to the United Kingdom’s
      Department for Work and Pensions. He was also Chief Medical Adviser and
      Head of Profession at the Veterans’ Agency, Ministry of Defence.   In 2001 he was appointed as The Royal Society of Medicine’s Academic Sub Dean for Wales. From 1974 to 1984 he was Chairman and Managing Director of Simbec Research Ltd, UK, and President of Simbec Inc, New Jersey USA.

      He is a physician and specialist in rheumatology, rehabilitation,
      therapeutics and clinical pharmacology. He has played a key role in the
      development of the UK’s
      medical assessment for incapacity (the All Work Test), the Personal
      Capability Assessment and the “Pathways to Work” initiative for
      Vocational Rehabilitation. For this he was made a Companion of the Bath, an order of knighthood in the Queen’s Jubilee Birthday Honours List 2002.   Professor Sir Mansel Aylward was knighted in the New Year’s Honours list in 2010.   He lives in his home town of Merthyr Tydfil.

      The link:

      UNUM Provident sponsors Professors Alywards department.

      By the way it’s Mr Alyward who did the WCA not Freud or Purnell

      The supporters include Professor Mansel Aylward (previous DWP Chief Medical Officer who left the DWP to direct Cardiff University’s UnumProvident Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research, Dame Carole Black, Lord Freud and Lord Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope (Chairman of the Unum Customer Advisory Panel when Chair of the UK Parliament’s Work and Pensions Select Committee).

      If there is a direct relationship between Unum and Atos, its nature is unknown. Unum and Atos were part of the DWP Technical Working Groups that defined the details of the “non-medical” model assessments that were mandatory if a person with a disability was to be eligible to receive benefits. The same private equity funds have interests in both Unum and Atos. Private equity fund managers are not slow to drive companies to maximise profits.

      • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

        Thanks for putting that info up, quite a few Labour Politicians I have asked about this have refused to answer, they seem to think that by avoiding the question it cannot of happened on their watch?

        • treborc1

           I met Mr Alyward on TV twice, nicer bloke you cannot meet, but sadly he’s a politician.

  • James

    “There are five people chasing every vacancy.”

    Well, that’s very statistically correct, humane, sympathetic, and enlightened of you, Liam, considering that you are the selfsame Byrne as per the following article in the Daily Mail:
     
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080776/Now-Ed-Miliband-gets-tough-onslaught-evil-benefits-scroungers.html

    I could fold up a better Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions for the Labour Party out of paper, by origami, than you you utterly hopeless twit! Get lost why don’t you?

    • AlanGiles

      Well said James.

      I don’t think I have more contempt for anyone – not even the awful Blair and Cameron or Osborne – than I have for this pusillanimous, posturing confidence trickster.

      We all know, if there was an election next week and Labour won, that Byrne, if he retained his current job, would be just as Purnellite/Freudian as before the same old menace.

    • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

      And where are all the jobs for the disabled people Iain Duncan Smith say’s should be working going to come from????

  • http://twitter.com/leonc1963 LeonC

    Great big bold claims from Cameron, IDS et all but they have proved just one thing they is no different to any other corrupt Conservative. The sooner we banish them all from the peoples parliament the better this once great nation will be.

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  • John Ruddy

    The real problem we have at the moment is our inability to make a case against these things. After all, they are just a continuation of what we (Labour) started while in office. And your own attacks Liam on the disabled, those on welfare etc have not helped. 

    Its time the Labour party said we were wrong. That people deserve support without conditions when the need arises – albeit that we will root out those who defraud the system, admitting that it is a very low percentage.

    Go on, Liam, try it. You never know, next month you might be off the bottom of the Labour List rankings…

    • LaurenceB

      The only way Liam Byrne could do some good for others, saving, and bringing joy into multiple ordinary lives is by becoming an organ donor. 

      • treborc1

        well yes but not his brain, that would be infected.

        • LaurenceB

          Brain? What brain?

    • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

      Well said that man…

  • Bill Lockhart

    The nonsense that is “relative” poverty is demonstrated by the fact that “relative child poverty” has just fallen- because families on benefits are now better off in relation to the nationalmedian income, which has fallen.  300,ooo children are thus no longer officially in poverty, although their family circumstances have  not changed a jot.  This news was welcomed by the presumably innumerate Children’s Society.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18436795

    “The number of children living in poverty in the UK fell by 300,000 last
    year as household incomes dropped, official figures have revealed.”

    • Hugh

      Not only that, but child poverty fell last year as well! Hurrah for the Tories who have discovered the secret to truly make poverty history: Recession!

      http://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/news-views/press-release/child-poverty-falls-we-still-have-concerns

      Of course, it should be noted that, with the most recent figures, The Children’s Society, welcomed “the lowest poverty level since the mid-1980s” but said that may be reversed by “drastic cuts to support and services”.

      How different it all was last year, when the Children’s Society was “deeply concerned that this positive progress will be undermined by current and upcoming government policies”.

      • Hugh

        And how different again than in May 2010. But then it was  Child Poverty Action Group raising concerns that the slight fall in child poverty “could be snuffed out by the new government’s attempts to tackle Britain’s parlous public finances.”

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/20/poverty-take-home-pay-pensioners-children

        But, remember, it’s a measure accepted across the developed world – “and Europe”.

      • Dave Postles

         Isn’t it the case that ‘relative child poverty’ declined because the median household income fell which affected the number of people at 60% of median income?  Is it not also the case that the IFS has made the same prediction of future relapse?  I raise those questions merely from what I have read in the detailed reports in the newspapers, but have no time to check out further.

        • Hugh

          ” Isn’t it the case that ‘relative child poverty’ declined because the
          median household income fell which affected the number of people at 60%
          of median income?”

          Yes. That’s rather the point. Child poverty has fallen for the past three years in a row, so unless you reckon things have actually been improving over that period you probably want to ask whether there might be something in IDS’s claim that tracking income levels alone is not really the best measure.

    • Peter Barnard

      If you think that relative poverty is “nonsense,” Bill L, it’s a shame that Adam Smith isn’t around to discuss things with you.

      “Consumable commodities are either necessaries or luxuries.

      By necessaries, I mean not only the commodities which are indispensably necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt.”

      Mr Smith placed leather shoes in the same category. He concluded, “Under necessaries, therefore, I comprehend not only those things which nature, but those things which the established rules of decency have rendered neceassry to the lowest rank of people.”

      • Bill Lockhart

        My family and I survive without cigarettes, a 48″ television or Sky Sports: many people in official “relative poverty” deem that all these are “necessary” and prioritise their spending to pay for them. That is the nonsense of relative poverty, as well as the arithmetical absurdities it inevitably produces, as demonstrated today. The word poverty itself is in danger of being devalued. Smith may well have been right about linen shirts in the 18th century: I doubt he would have sympathised with the “need” for a Panasonic LCD tv.

        • Dave Postles

           I can’t decide if this is parody or irony.  Rawhide returns.

        • Peter Barnard

          Regardless of the fancy examples that you give, Mr L, Adam Smith certainly recognised “relative poverty” and if someone as wise and humane as Mr Smith recognised the concept of relative poverty more than two hundred years ago, then I am sure that the concept is valid.

          • Bill Lockhart

             So you’ll be applauding the fact of a  reduction in “relative child poverty” announced today as a good thing?  No, of course you won’t, because you know it’s a statistical chimera, just as it is the rest of the time. Poverty is  real need. The rest is aspiration- normally a dirty word to the LL Left unless, apparently,  it’s benefits claimants doing the aspiring, when it becomes “relative poverty”. I think Adam Smith’s wisdom would probably enable him to see the differences between the extremes of the British socio-economic spectra of the 18th and 21st centuries.

          • LaurenceB

            This is utter bollocks. You might as well say that the poor should still be fed on tasteless gruel rather than tasty solid food because gruel is adequate to sustain human life and only drink cold water because coffee and tea are luxuries. Give us all a rest and go soak your head you complete and utter plonker!

          • Jon

            Well, I for one have always thought that Bill is “relatively” stupid but now I think he’s “absolutely” stupid. How’d ya like them apples?

          • Bill Lockhart

             Mindless abuse from people like you has the same effect as praise from someone intelligent.
             Enjoy celebrating the reduction in “relative child poverty”, and don’t hurt yourself  trying to think about what it means.

          • Peter Barnard

            All I’m saying, Bill, is that Adam Smith seemed to recognise the concept of relative poverty, a concept that you initially described as nonsense.

            Since purchasing power (including the power to purchase a “linen shirt”)  is directly proportionate to wages, then it seems logical that there is a level of wages below which someone could be said to be in relative poverty.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

            Perhaps we can all agree that relative poverty does exist, however the calculation of this measure must be considered more carefully if we want to expose (and eliminate) it.

          • Peter Barnard

            Indeed, David (“relative poverty”).

            Having said that, I don’t think that Mr L will ever accept the concept of relative poverty.

            DWP some time ago now (the examples may still be available, I don’t know) had a list of examples that indicated relative poverty.

            One of them was something along the lines of “can you afford to pay for a school day trip for your child?” If the answer was, “No,” then the judgement was that a degree of relative poverty was present.

          • treborc1

            Last year the local school asked me if I would pay £750 for a school trip to France for my grandson, they also said he needed £150 spending money.

            My grandson stated he did not want to go because he did not fancy the trip, they were going on a religious trip and my grandson is non religious.

            The school had to call it off in the end, because so many of the parents said no not when things are so  hard, but a lot of them said they had failed to get loans.

            The headmaster could not understand how people would refuse to pay for a holiday like this to educate their child.

            He’s of course being paid £175,000

            This year he wanted to take the kids to Italy but it did not get to far as the parents put a stop to it, once the cost was known £1500

            Poverty for some is not poverty for others.

          • Peter Barnard

            That is quite ridiculous, Treborc.

            It makes you wonder how well the head actually knows his pupils and their families.

            Actually, the level of expenditure that I was thinking about was about £25 for a day trip. I am sure that there are families for whom £25 would be a struggle.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            I’m with you on this, both Treborc1 and Peter.  I was speaking with a teacher from my daughter’s school at a social event:  she said that in a class of 15 year olds, at least 30% had never been to London or abroad.  Given that we live only about 70 miles from London, close to a main train line, that is shocking.  I asked her why she thought that was the case:  her reply was that about one third had parents who had no idea of giving their children a broader outlook, and 2/3rds had financial issues (it is about a £50 day trip to London by train, with spending money).  This is Cambridgeshire, a wealthy part of the country, not somewhere like Darlington which is both relatively deprived and also far from London.

          • Peter Barnard

            Thanks, Jaime.

            Good points.

          • treborc1

             A day  trip in my area will set you back £75
            nothing is cheap these days.

          • Peter Barnard

            Just shows you, Robert, how long ago it was when I looked at day trip prices …

        • Chris Tobin

          “… cigarettes, a 48″ television or Sky Sports…”

          Are you trying to insinuate that all benefit claimants are smokers and Sky subscribers with Panasonic LCD tvs? Have a word with yourself for goodness sake? Making up twaddle like this completely devalues your comments. It’s childish and silly.

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  • Mark

    Byrne is an example of everything that is wrong with the modern Labour Party.

    He’s a self-serving careerist who will do – or try to do – whatever he considers necessary to succeed as define by his own terms. If seeming to be sympathetic towards benefit claimants and helping them to improve their lives could promote him Byrne would almost certainly try against type to appear to be helpful and sympathetic towards the dispossessed: on the other hand if being a scourge to benefit claimants seemed to be the way to go in respect to advancing Byrne’s influence and status I am quite sure that Liam would happily join in with and whip up the tabloids “scrounger” rhetoric, pouring blood into the water to intensify a feeding frenzy already stoked where the disadvantaged are torn limb from limb and eaten alive by the crazed sharks of ill thought out, inhumane, ineffective, unjust and potentially disastrous “welfare reforms”.

    People like Byrne don’t care about good and bad, right or wrong, only about expediency.

    The Labour Party needs to be led by much better people than the amoral Liam Byrne.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Byrne is a liability, and its a pity he didn’t leave the shadow cabinet altogether last time

      • treborc1

         The pay is pretty good.

      • http://twitter.com/AtosVictims1 Atos Victims

        Mike

        I’m affraid I don’t see the Labour Party changing much from Byrnes Ideology, Miliband has often used terms to denigrate people on benefits, like many politicians he will use the media and the general public to his advantage instead of doing what’s right and supporting those that cannot support or fight for themselves…

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  • News

    Labour NEC Report – 21st May 2013

    Party Organisation The General Secretary (GS) noted the party’s good performance in the recent Local, Mayoral and South Shields elections and thanked all members, activists and staff for their contribution to that success. The committee discussed the work of Blue State Digital who have been brought in to revolutionise the party’s use of new and social media as part of our suite of campaign tools. It was noted that Matthew McGregor, Head of Blue State Digital’s London Office and former [...]

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  • News Labour’s London Assembly Leader responds to Woolwich attack

    Labour’s London Assembly Leader responds to Woolwich attack

    Following yesterday’s attack in Woolwich, Leader of the Labour Group on the London Assembly Len Duvall AM said: “The attack in Woolwich was horrific, the actions of local people in response and the head-teacher and staff at the school are a reflection of the values and strength of our community. “At this afternoon’s London Assembly Police and Crime Committee questions will be asked about yesterday’s attack and the response, and at a future assembly meeting we will come together to [...]

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  • Comment If Labour is to build One Nation, it must be a safe and equal one for women

    If Labour is to build One Nation, it must be a safe and equal one for women

    Today End Violence Against Women (EVAW) releases a new report auditing the Government’s progress in acting to prevent violence against women and girls. And with the revelations from Operation Yewtree and group exploitation cases set to roll on for many months , we hope the response from Parliament, policy-makers and the media will be unanimous : that prevention must be at the top of the priority list for any government, of any colour, from now on. On that basis, it’s [...]

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  • News The theories that will occupy security forces after Woolwich – Media roundup: May 23rd, 2013

    The theories that will occupy security forces after Woolwich – Media roundup: May 23rd, 2013

    Subscribers to our morning email get the best of LabourList – including the Media and blog round up – every weekday morning. If you were a subscriber you would have already received this in your inbox. You can sign up here. Woolwich – the theories that will occupy security forces “Counter-terrorism officers and security officials will doubtless fear that Woolwich fits into the category of crime that they can do little to thwart; random, lone-wolf, unsophisticated attacks, conducted by people who are not [...]

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  • Featured This week, amid so much fear, hatred and confusion, let us not forget love

    This week, amid so much fear, hatred and confusion, let us not forget love

    Life can come out and shock you. The events of yesterday are unimaginable. The family of the poor victim are in indescribable pain. Those who knew the men who have done these terrible things will also be suffering. They too are victims of this awful crime. Over the next few days and weeks we will see the best and the worst of humanity. As John Lydon once sang, anger is an energy. Well directed anger is healthy. We should be [...]

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