Twigg: Labour won’t close Free Schools

June 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Stephen Twigg reiterated in his interview with Andrew Neil on the Sunday Politics what he told me when I interviewed him for Total Politics a few months ago – Labour won’t close Free Schools. Watch the interview below:

  • http://twitter.com/Arcowray Paul

    I can not help but think that there is an inconsistency in message
    toward this. I guess that politics but its hard to say you’re against something
    when you say you won’t change it. I know there is more to it then that and is hard
    to turn back time but saying you don’t know isn’t very helpful.

  • AlanGiles

    He didn’t say yes – and he didn’t say no,
    He didn’t say stay – and he didn’t say go,
    He wanted to climb, but was frightend to fall,
    So he stayed where he was, and clung to the wall

    (“She Didn’t Say Yes”  (1931)  composed by Jerome Kern, with lyrics written by Otto Harbach).

    It’s 1997 again: New Labour doesn’t approve of JSA or rail privatisation – but regard it is a fait accompli and do nothing – except make the JSA rules harder.

    In the LL poll this month, judging by this lamentable performance, Twigg may well tie with Byrne for bottom placing

  • Dave Postles

    RIP Labour Party: even equality of opportunity has been abandoned.

    • jaime taurosangastre candelas

      “Equality of opportunity” is something no one should argue with, but the problem appears to be that the Labour Party’s implementation is biased to achieving it by lowering down, rather than raising up.  In practical terms, children only get 12 or 14 years of compulsory education, and for parents of children going through the education process, why should we be content with this exercise?

      I have two children less than half way through their education.  My two children are more important to me than other people’s children, which is not to say that other people’s children are not important to me and do not themselves deserve my support.

      The issue is thrown into sharper focus for me with my daughter’s school’s transition to Academy status.  It is clear from the safeguards the school has already attained that the outcome could be no worse than currently; there is a reasonable and realistic expectation that it will be better than it currently is.  So on balance, I support the idea.

      I am unimpressed with the arguments that taking away a school from county control is somehow a disaster.  There is nothing in the rule book that says a County Council is supreme in making choices about education, or running schools.  Indeed, in my dealings with Cambridgeshire County council (mostly on the health side), the council civl servants appear to be mostly fools, so I have no confidence their education department is any different.  Removing my daughter’s school from their control may be no bad thing.

      In political terms, I really struggle with the idea that patchy improvements across the whole country should be stopped in favour of achieving some mythical level status for all, even if the level status is lower.  I’m a parent, I want the very best for my children, and political belief is about number 363 in my priorities for them.  That should not be so hard for Labour to understand.

      What Labour should be doing is developing a policy in which standards are raised for everyone, not held down.  Then parents may vote for Labour at the next election.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        It is inconsistent to say that you don’t believe in something and won’t create any more, but also won’t do anything about those you have

        It is inconsistent and unworkable within the framework of the remainder of Labour’s education policy. I wouldn’t expect you to agree with it, as your ideology is so far away from ours, but given that we do not support the coalition approach, there is very little sense in isolating this part and being unwilling to act

      • http://twitter.com/mistyblulabour dave stone

        “something no one should argue with” 

        Sorry Jaime but I feel I must demur on this.
        The problem, in a nutshell, is this: “equality of opportunity” as a political ambition would, if successful, allow for the replacement of an unjust hierarchy with a seemingly ‘just’ hierarchy – ‘just’ only in the sense that everyone (if a level playing field is not an impossibility) has an opportunity to achieve a privileged position, i.e. to sit at or near the top of the of hierarchical pyramid.

        The end result is that we end up with as much inequality as before but are supposed to be consoled by an understanding that this unfairness was achieved by ‘fair’ means.

        Surely the ideal of a democratic society must be to recognise the worth of all instead of seeking to devise the means by which the few may achieve privilege? 

        • Alexwilliamz

          Agreed

        • jaime taurosangastre candelas

          Dave,

          You seem to be pointing towards “equality of opportunity” as being merely a way-post on the way to the ultimate “equality of outcome”, and it is some considerable way short of that aim that I get off your bus.  

          I am a Christian, if not one that pretends to believe in some of the fantasy such as the creation myth.  That allows my brain to engage a little, and also allows me to understand that the natural world, naturally, creates hierarchies.  Charles Darwin codified it first, but there’s a wider truth that in life there are talents and incompetences in people that shape the outcome of their lives.  To me, politics needs to find a way of best supporting those who do not reach the top of the natural hierarchy, but to artificially bring down those who do is wrong. 

          • http://twitter.com/mistyblulabour dave stone

            A “natural hierarchy” – that’s interesting. As is the possibility of “artificially” bringing down those who are accorded superiority and occupy the apex of the “natural hierarchy”.

            What’s stopping you from opposing democracy – where the less talented majority (we know the majority are less talented because your hierarchical pyramid must sit on a broad base) are able to bring down the “naturally” superior?

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            That’s a little odd for you to say that – as we live in a free and non-directed Animal Farm society, I see no issue with acknowledging that some people achieve more natural success in life than others.  It would be a bit ridiculous to try to deny that.  My interest is in how those who do not are not disadvantaged, not in trying to hold back reality.

          • http://twitter.com/mistyblulabour dave stone

            But to me your reality seems to be an experiment in human engineering very similar to an Animal Farm type project. And as fictitious and artificial as the reality presented by Didacus Valdes’ Great Chain of Being*.

            At one time that hierarchy was considered to be an obviously accurate representation of reality and self-evidently natural.
            *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Chain_of_Being_2.png

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            I don’t see it as engineering at all, in fact the opposite.

            In life, some people are “good at things”, whatever things may be.  They will rise to the top through talent, and often application and hard work.  That is true of business, sport, art, etc.  We should not try to stop them.  No one complains that Mr A who is better than Mr B at something is promoted over Mr B.

          • http://twitter.com/mistyblulabour dave stone

            Certainly, Mr A’s ability in his area of specialisation should be recognised and, if appropriate, rewarded.

            But to then go on and legitimise inequality and establish an artificial panoply of privilege on the grounds that Mr A is able to cut a lawn quicker than Mr B seems to be a disproportionate and socially disfiguring response, to say the least.

          • AlanGiles


            In life, some people are “good at things”, whatever things may be.  They will rise to the top through talent, and often application and hard work. ”

            I can’t agree with you there Jaime. Luck plays a big part, and in some walks of life it is still true that it is WHO you know rather than WHAT you know that is important (Georgia Gould and Erith & Thamesmead come to mind; sure she didn’t succeed, but that was not for the want of trying by her dads friends).

            Luck: well in my own field of knowledge there have been numerous musicians who have been of equal stature and talent who failed – not through lack of talent, but because they were sidelined. A classic case: Oran “Hot Lips” Page (1906-1954) was a blues and jazz singer and trumpeter of exceptional quality, but like Red Allen he was contemporary with Louis Armstrong (1900-1971). Armstrong’s manager (Joe Glazer)recognized Hot Lips talent, and signed him as well, but made sure he always got the smaller record label deals and doing virtually nothing to promote him, because Louis was his star – arguably Page was the BETTER musician, but – there you go.

            Today you can still see this sort of thing in all walks of life.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Alan, that’s ridiculous to suggest that luck has a greater role than talent.

            I have been learning and playing the guitar for about 15 years, but I’m just not very good at it.  Eric Clapton has a natural talent that I do not have.  It is unsurprising that he has risen to the top in guitar playing, and I have not.

            Luck to me is where two roughly even talents are separated by chance, one flourishing and one not.

          • AlanGiles

            “Alan, that’s ridiculous to suggest that luck has a greater role than talent.”

            Is it, Jaime, if you say so, but, especially in the arts luck DOES play a large role – being in the right place at the right time (in theatre and cinema, the casting couch is the place to be, I believe), but in other areas would Ms Gould have been considered at 22, with no experience whatsoever, had she been a bus drivers daughter for example?

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Alan, up to the top because the box is too small.

          • Chilbaldi

            Alan, a lot of people are unlucky that’s the point. Creating an equality of opportunity ensures that fewer people are so unlucky.

            Equality of opportunity aims to destroy current hierarchies – i.e. the upper middle class strangehold on Oxbridge, Oxbridge’s strangehold on the professions, the fact that it matters who your father is when going for some jobs.

            Take that away and people progress depending on their inate talent.

            Get a suitable education system and peoples’ inate talent is developed to its fullest potential.

            We aren’t all born equal. And a levelling down system benefits the less talented, while seriously damaging people who are more talented.

          • AlanGiles

            “the fact that it matters who your father is when going for some jobs”

            Lucky for me the old school tie didn’t apply to my branch of engineering, in the circumstances!

      • Alexwilliamz

        There is no magic wand that transforms schools by becoming academies. There are sometimes financial advantages but also a loss of local democratic accountability. Not an issue if all is going well, but what if there are issues, if so basically you as a parent have no where you can appeal to. Academies by the way the system is being run, are forced into gerrymandering results to ensure they meet targets, this is rarely down in the best interest in the students, your daughter as a bright student will effectively face being put into for more qualifications than she needs or you will have heard of, all to boost average grade scores. Meanwhile they have to compete for students with other schools, leading to inefficient allocation of resources, long term planning problems depending on demographics and an attempt to cherry pick. The ideal student would be a bright student from a poor postcode, hopefully with divorced parents, as this will probably mean their will be only one ‘assessed’ household income, meaning they may well qualify for free school meals, but in reality will come from a better than average economic background. Any difficult kids will be left to the local comprehensive to hoover up.

        The issues you have with the local authority are valid, but surely this points to a need to reform LAs and give them a good kick up the pants rather than creating a ‘market’ for education which leads to good outcomes for some, worse for others, and massive inefficiencies as we see more spaces being funded than children to go round at one point. The LA also provides some regular oversight (which again could be improved in many places) and also a number of fall back services. Just as with the health services there re question marks about what happens if an academy fails financially. The biggest question though remains about accountability, and relying on ofsted to provide this is somewhat concerning serendipitous and altogether too speculative for words.

        In brief I fear we may see a situation not unlike where you see the attempt to create ‘markets’ in health care, with profit making companies trying to harvest the easy low hanging fruit (clever kids) leaving the ever financially squeezed local body to pick up the tricky cases and harder work. 

        If we believe in state education then it has to provide an education for all, if you have concerns for your children, rather than trying to skew the system to favour them you should bite the bullet and pay for them to be educated privately. Ideally we would all like to see a system which educates all according to need and ability, the academy system in my humble opinion fails to do that and is simply an attempt to ‘marketise’ education to ‘drive up standards’. This misses the point about what the problems might mean and what the hell standards are and how you ‘drive’ them up. There is no basic inanimate raw material being manufactured into some simple clearly defined product, the raw material possess free will and their own agenda, the product is unclear sketchy and aspirational. Already it should be clear what a nonsense our educational reforms and dogmas have been for the last 30 years.

        • jaime taurosangastre candelas

          Alex,

          thank you for that.  Lots of food for thought, so an instant response is not appropriate, other than my instinct is that we should be trying to go in the right direction, not in the wrong direction.

      • Chilbaldi

        absolutely spot on Jaime.

        The problem you encounter here is the unwavering faith that many have in the comprehensive system, despite the fact that educational standards are lower and social mobility has decreased since it was introduced.

  • Bill Lockhart

    Some Leftists won’t rest until all schools are as bad as the worst. Only then will they have achieved the “equality of opportunity” they crave.

    • Alexwilliamz

      Classic gibberish trotted out by the anti-egalitarians. As if equality automatically become a levelling down process. I think there is already a far more effective structure in place for the race to the bottom! Perhaps what is aspired to is equality in which everyone should expect the best? Or at least that which is sufficient, this does not demand n equality of content, or even money spent merely that education should work around the simple principle that each is educated according to their need. At the moment it seems that each is educated according to their ability to pass silly tests.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

        Ignoring the subjective “to pass silly tests” part, does saying

        “each is educated according to their ability”

        not sound like a reasonable grounding for an education policy?

        • Alexwilliamz

          This is implicit in educated according to their need, if I take your meaning correctly. According to ability implies that people of the same ability should all be taught in the same way, which is part of where the present system falls. down. One issue is that education is about developing potential ability and that is a tricky thing to put your finger one. Teaching according to ‘ability’ at some snapshot in time can often miss the key elements of potential to develop and grow. A classic example being putting students into exams a year early, sure they have the ability to pass a year early but what they would benefit from with it given they will be in that school for another year, would be to develop their wider skills beyond the narrow examination criteria. That is their need, there ability might be suitable for the exam, but it is of no real benefit for them, as they will still have the ability the year after.

    • Wyatt Twerp

      Silly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

    Just not good enough.

    It will not be possible to carry out a planned and equitable education policy whilst these exist.

    The last government made the mistake of introducing academies in the first place and this is another example of some shadow ministers being unable to recognise where the last government made mistakes, let alone where the privatisation policies are making things worse still

    • treborc1

      Well Labour will agree with some of the Tories ideas, up until Miliband gave direction, some in labour felt the NHS reforms were not that bad.

      So perhaps this is again a minister  saying what he feels and not what the policy will be.

    • Reidjp

      Maybe the oppostiion can’t realse where the last govenment made msitakes as you put it, as the last govenment was re-elected onit when it went to the public, and maybe the opposition wat to win the next election so they’ve realised that this sort of thing wins labour elections,

      • Mike Homfray

        No point in winning elections to enact right wing policies

        • treborc1

          Labour would of course say no good turning to the left just to be in opposition. It’s going to take a very good spin doctors to get people who are to the left to feel the party is for them.

  • Alexwilliamz

    Has not decided if it would allow any more. FFS surely that is a no brainer. Get this man out of the cabinet. The party needs to grow some and stop trying to be all things to all men.

    • AlanGiles

      I am probably inviting another “you’re a Tory” jibe from the poster with 3 names, but, to be frank , Twigg became a Labour hero for despatching Michael Portillo from Enfield 15 years ago, and his trademark “Billy Bunter bemused” look remains from those far-off days to remind us of his fading charm. He is too old now to be playing the confused beginner.

      But when you look and listen to now ex-politician Michael Portillo on his “Great Railway Journies”, Portillo seems to have more substance and personality than the lightweight Twigg (though he of course has branches everywhere!)

      • treborc1

        lets bet honest labour got sod all to offer people at the moment, it’s looking around the press to see what the reaction are in the comments sections of the press.

        Labour do not forget backed the Tories NHS reforms with new labour types falling over them selves to tell us that was labour Plans, Adonis  not the Greek god but Labour one, stated Free schools was a labour plan.

        So in the end you have to say if new labour is dead, it’s taking a bloody long time to die.

  • Wyatt Twerp

    Why is Twigg shadowing the education portfolio? We all know where he came from and where he wants to go? I always thought his ascension almost as mysterious as Liam Byrne’s survival as member of the shadow cabinet.

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    Alan, re luck against talent.

    Clearly, we can all find one off examples of how luck triumphs despite little talent, or of the talented person who beats every form of bad luck to triumph.  I suggest that across the whole of society, by and large talent will rise to the top over lucky but less talented individuals.  This is natural, and is not any form of problem.

    Life is selective, in every aspect, in every society, indeed in every species.  What the left should be concentrating upon is how to ensure that those not rising to the top by their own talents are not further disadvantaged.

    • AlanGiles

      ” I suggest that across the whole of society, by and large talent will rise to the top over lucky but less talented individuals. ”

      I think we will have to agree to disagree on this Jaime. When you think of some of the talentless, shallow individuals who rise to the top of the political ladder for example, and contrast them with the honest and committed individuas who either volunteer or take part in local politics, and a certain Ms Amy Childs, who I was reading about recently: she is  millionaire, who appeared on a TV “reality” show. To quote a talent scout on Fred Astair: “can’t act, can’t sing” -  and unlike him, she can’t even “dance a bit”.

      I am not speaking here with a personal axe to grind BTW, by and large I did what I did fairly well and was well paid for it, and quite happy to have done it – equally happy though to be out of it now, and enjoying the garden, when it isn’t the monsoon season that is.

    • Newham Sue

      Firstly, starting with the lighter end of your arguments with Alan, as someone who’s employed as a music booker in television, dealing day-to-day with the pop industry, I have to agree with Alan that random factors, sometimes sadly, sometimes happily,  have far more to do with music business success than raw musical talent – whether that be who you know, fitting in with prevalent music fashion, physical attractiveness, the production team you work with blah blah blah.

       Leaving that smaller point aside, though, as someone who went to Oxford from a London state comprehensive (one of four in my year who did), I’ve always been left non-plussed by criticisms of the comprehensive system – a form of education that had the flexibility to accomodate developmental shifts in ability and gave the opportunity to kids from all backgrounds to experience the full range of learning from the traditional academic subjects to music, art, metalwork, woodwork, I.T and design and technology. I received brilliant teaching and have nothing but praise for my school. 

      Although some of the stories I hear about academies, leave me greatly concerned, it’s the arrival of free schools (and the idea Labour might tolerate such additions to the educational canon that deeply concern me). If local government control isn’t the be all and end all, I’m baffled to see how a system of education that centralises control to the point that an appeal to the likes of the education secretary is the only recourse to unhappy parents when that school doesn’t deliver is any kind of improvement.  Also, as someone living in an amazing borough of great religious cultural and religious diversity, I’m disturbed by any development in education that separates children along such lines and prevents them being educated side-by-side (have we learned nothing from the history of Northern Ireland – and lesser sectarian splits witnessed in Glasgow and Liverpool to name just two cities). 

  • Politique

    Mark,
    It is quite clear that we are not learning fom the failure of New Labour. It is quite clear that Stephen Twigg is not the right person to take Labour forward in terms of modernising our Education system. He speaks of evidence. The evidence is quite clear and can be proved. Innovation is NOT the reason for raising standards in attainment in our schools. The only sole reason is a change of pupil intake and other stealth measures. Twigg misunderstands. Breaking the cycle of failure and underacheivement in schools, a New Labour soundbite has created a monster that leaves a permanent link and stain with New Labour. Ed Miliband needs need create super comprehensives.

    Twigg is not the right person to take Education forward. He fails to mention the failure of the CTC experiment. He fails to mention Charles Clarke, David Miliband and Tony Blairs intention to expand of 200 to 400 schools based on schools that were open for twelve months and others that were not open long enough and did no better than their predessor schools. What about the cash for honours scandal. Have the electorate forgot this debacle. I think not. Standards have raised in some schools at the extent of creating sink schools in adjoining neighbourhood schools. They have no choice, not Parental choice to convert to Academy, along with the 10% extra funding. The latter being another reason that schools are opting for change.

    Labour are conducting a Policy Review by wannabe career university politicians that have no link to grassroots.

    Given that Twigg is aware that there are people in politics who know far more about education than he does (and that would of course includes me) he provides very little evidence in his debates

    I will challenge Mr Twigg on his knowledge of New Labour Education policy, Academies and Free schools.

    If this is the best Labour have got as a representative for education we have a real severe problem.

  • Chris Tobin

    Well, there’s a surprise.

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