Why on earth is stopping Labour from saying the Universal Credit won’t work?

September 17, 2012 10:34 am

This afternoon the Secretary of State is up before the Work & Pensions Select Committee for a chat about universal credit. So I thought I’d write you a column about universal credit and why, like so many of the government’s ideas on welfare reform, it’s as unworkable as it is punitive. Unfortunately, while browsing Hansard, I came across this phrase, from a contribution by Tory MP Richard Graham to last Tuesday’s Opposition Day debate on the subject -

“[Universal credit] will…reduce 30 complex benefits into something that even the humblest citizens advice bureau can understand and explain to the many constituents of ours who visit them…”

- and now I’m too angry to write a column. Seventy-plus organisations – the kind of groups who were providing a Big Society for decades before Cameron decided to dress the concept up in bunting and Cath Kidston: like the ‘humble’ Citizens Advice, who, unlike your average Tory or indeed most MPs of any colour, actually know what they’re talking about when it comes to the welfare system – are frantically pointing out that this benefit overhaul will see the poorest and most vulnerable lose out. It’s not bad enough that the Tories won’t listen to them – they have to talk down to them as well.

So, instead of spending 1000 words poking holes in universal credit and making cat jokes, I give you the excellent words of Willie Bain MP, also from Tuesday’s Opposition Day debate, because this is an effective if not exhaustive summary that you might have already have read:

In principle, simplifying the tax and in-work benefits system by uniting them in a single integrated payment may have beneficial effects, but there is evidence that the government are failing to address potential weaknesses in several key areas.

First, the system becomes more complicated for the growing number of self-employed people, and depends on access to the internet. In my constituency, where the poverty level is drastically above the national average, more than eight in 10 people do not have access to the internet at home.

Secondly, the current design of universal credit appears to penalise lone parents. Gingerbread understands that up to 4 million of them, including 1 million who are in work, will lose out under universal credit. Estimates suggest that 150,000 of the poorest single parents could lose up to £68 per week, which would push 250,000 children deeper into poverty. The situation appears worse when we consider the increasing competition for part-time work in a weak labour market. The rate of under-employment among women aged between 16 and 24 has risen by nearly 5% in the last four years, and for women aged between 35 and 49 the figure is nearly 4%.

Thirdly, universal credit does not put right the harm that the Government have already done in regard to support for child care costs. According to Save the Children, 56% of mums say that the main issue preventing them from working, or making them consider giving up work, is the increase in child care costs. However, parents on low incomes are already paying more than they used to because of the 10% reduction in the child care tax credit. The Resolution Foundation found that last year child care costs rose by 50% for some of those families.

Fourthly, the much-trumpeted rise in the personal tax allowance will be counteracted by universal credit, because people on low incomes who receive the credit will no longer receive a reduction in their tax bills. A £1,000 increase in the personal tax allowance will give £200 per year to every basic rate taxpayer except those on universal credit, who will gain only £70. They will receive only a third as much from any increase in the personal tax allowance as the rest of the population.

Fifthly, there is a risk that the withdrawal of “passported” benefits such as free school meals, and the lack of a second-earner disregard in the design of the credit, will create new cliff edges in the benefits system.

Finally, those who take jobs after being unemployed for more than six months will not receive an extra four weeks on benefits to smooth their transition.

As the litany of problems with this credit grows longer, Labour’s insistence that we want to see this policy succeeding seems increasingly silly – a little like Nicola Murray in Saturday’s TTOI, firmly insisting that her Opposition party supported scrapping ring-fenced funding for school breakfast clubs even as the Government realised the policy made them look like callous, shameless, unfeeling bastards robbing from children and the working poor.

Yes, you should be better off in work than in benefits – that’s an argument for affordable transport, affordable childcare, healthy trade unions and a living wage (and I’m delighted, not incidentally, that the Manchester Minimum Wage will be going up again from next month). But do we need to keep saying we support the principle of simplifying the entire tax and in-work benefits system into one integrated payment? I support the principle of free bourbon biscuits for all, in that I think it’s a nice idea, but I also accept that a) if it was possible, it would probably have happened by now and b) there are higher priorities in the fight to end child poverty.

The experts know universal credit won’t work. The government’s own advisers know it. The Prime Minister knows it, which is why he tried to sack the Quiet Batperson from the DWP brief. What on earth is preventing Labour from coming out and saying that we know it too?

  • AlanGiles

    “Why on earth is stopping Labour from saying the Universal Credit won’t work?”

    Sheer spinelessness, an absolute terror of offending Middle England the Daily Mail, plus a few right-wing Labour headbangers like Field…….and the fact that the wrong man is the Shadow minister. If Ed Miliband wants to start a new page, he should get rid of this would-be Birmingham Mayor.

    • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

      But he won’t because Byrne is

      • AlanGiles

         Yes, Renie. If you say so. I am sure the hapless Byrne is very grateful for your unwaivering and sycophantic support.

        • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

          And I am sure Ed Miliband is grateful for comments about what he should and should not do with his shadow cabinet and will heed your advice at every word (ahem).

          • AlanGiles

             Well, if the public find the shadow cabinet as remote and detatched  and uneffective as currently they are and  as they do the current coalition, they will not be going out to vote Labour with any great enthusiasm. Another hung parliament in 2015 I expect.

            BTW It’s Monday, you have be on my case all morning – do you have no lessons today, or is it half term already?

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            Because the Shadow Cabinet determines how people vote. You don’t expect another hung parliament, you just want another hung parliament. Anyway, under current boundaries, Labour needs to be 1% ahead of the Tories to get a majority. Btw, I will not stoop to your patronising remarks and inverted insults, thank you very much. My lessons and my timetable is my business not yours.

    • Dave Postles

       Nothing to add to Alan’s critique – except that Labour is pusillanimous.  It seems that it’s moral compass only points to the affluent areas of the SE.

  • AlanGiles

    Perhaps Richard Graham MP should contact his local C.A.B., who – however “humble” – might be able to give him some advice on curtailing his “expenses”:-

    http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Gloucestershire-MPs-cost-taxpayers-pound-800-000/story-16854422-detail/story.html 

    • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

      Why are you obsessed with political scandals and Blairites? It is rather tiresome and annoys people. Start your own blog about how much you despise scandalous politicians and how much you want to burn Blairites on a stake!

      • AlanGiles

         ” how much you want to burn Blairites on a stake!”

        I know you are a little kid desperate for attention, but you really do make yourself sound puerile, hysterical and frankly stupid. Run along and play

        Careful, Renie, you are slipping back into old ways…

        • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

          How very adult of you! You never fail to be constantly condescending and patronising. I thought people like you should welcome young people getting involved in politics? Quite shocking that you have not been put on pre-moderation, in all honesty it is you who is looking for attention and should calm down. What old ways? Are you going to make those unsubstantiated insults again.  

          • AlanGiles

             I can only repeat that “burning at the stake” remark was frankly childish.

            As I told you this morning, I don’t “hate” anybody – you seem to be the one with these obsessive thoughts, about hatred.

            As far as I am concerned Blair is now the day before yesterdays man – he is not coming back, and regarding the comment about Richard Graham, that got you so upset and excited, I would remind you that Graham is a Conservative MP. Perhaps extravagence by politicians doesn’t bother you in this age of austerity where we are all in it together, but just because mention of it upsets or “annoys” you, you are but one small voice on LL and I don’t think the rest of us should have to be circumscribed in our comments by having to cater to your likes and dislikes

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            I don’t think many little kids know what being ‘burnt at stake’ actually means. Forgive me, I am studying A-Level Early Modern History – very ineresting topic, you should try it.
            I know that Richard Graham is a Tory MP, and that is why I referred to political scandals and mentioned the Blair bit as part of your ongoing and obsessive ‘one-man’ campaign against Blairites.
            I have no problem with people voicing their views, it is part of living in a free society, the only person with the problem seems to be you. Hypocrisy is never a good trait, Alan, I’m young and even I can understand that.

          • AlanGiles

             I would be a bit careful about acussing people of hypocrisy, if I were you. As I was talking about Richard Graham, Tory MP your  remarks about “Blairites” here was totally out of context – unless of course you are now saying that Conservatives are Blairites?

            We all know you don’t care about integrity (provided the MP is on the Right and wearing a red rosette, anything goes), but some of us do. Do you not understand that?

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            That is total “bunkum”. My remark was about Liam Byrne and your comment on the expenses, which is now becoming very stultifying. You have become a paradigm of hypocrisy, by telling me not to do what you are doing.
            I do care about integrity. MP is on the Right? I am someone from the left-of-centre and so is the Labour Party. Are you and if not why do you always troll people on this site.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            That is total “bunkum”. My remark was about Liam Byrne and your comment on the expenses, which is now becoming very stultifying. You have become a paradigm of hypocrisy, by telling me not to do what you are doing.
            I do care about integrity. MP is on the Right? I am someone from the left-of-centre and so is the Labour Party. Are you and if not why do you always troll people on this site.

          • AlanGiles

             Half the time I don’t honestly think you know what you are saying. I mention a Conservative MP – Richard Graham, and you whine about me being nasty to Blairites. As you know everything, please tell us if Mr. Graham IS a Blairite, and are Blairites now Conservative MPs?. I didn’t even mention Blair, but you go off on one.

            By the way, belated many happy returns. I guess it must have been your birthday recently and somebody bought you a dictionary: “paradigm” AND “stultifying”. Very good!.

            Honestly Renie – you sit there all the time attitudenizing, and posturing, and working yourself up into a state of moral indignation. You write something and then a little while later try to wriggle out of it by claiming either you didn’t write it, or didn’t mean it to come out the way it did.

            The more you go on in this manner the more you show yourself up as immature and inconsistent.

            If you think you are “left of centre”, you clearly have no sense of direction either.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            My remark included your earlier comment about Liam Byrne who is a Blairite. You are stultifying yourself quite frankly. My birthday has not happened recently. Anyway, Alan what ahve you been told about hypocrisy? I am centre-left, you’re not – you are nowhere near the centre ground. As I have said, can you please stop commenting on my posts. It is rather sad that you have not got a life other than to argue with a teenager at around 5 o’clock in the morning, no offence.

          • AlanGiles

             ” It is rather sad that you have not got a life other than to argue with a
            teenager at around 5 o’clock in the morning, no offence.”

            Pusillanimous response (“no offence”). Of course you mean to be bloody offensive, don’t pretend otherwise. I suffer from insomnia, if that is OK with you. It is rather sad a teenager hasn’t got anything else to do all day and part of the night, but that’s you affair.

            Now just stop trying to draw attention to yourself.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            I have quiet a busy life for an ordinary student, believe you me. You can’t engage with the substance, you spend the early hours of the morning arguing with someone years younger than you and being extremely rude and you never engage with the argument but before you instead you make attention-seeking remarks. I urge you not to reply to comments, as you said you would. Keep your promises, or maybe you ought to join the Lib Dems!

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            I have quiet a busy life for an ordinary student, believe you me. You can’t engage with the substance, you spend the early hours of the morning arguing with someone years younger than you and being extremely rude and you never engage with the argument but before you instead you make attention-seeking remarks. I urge you not to reply to comments, as you said you would. Keep your promises, or maybe you ought to join the Lib Dems!

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            That is total “bunkum”. My remark was about Liam Byrne and your comment on the expenses, which is now becoming very stultifying. You have become a paradigm of hypocrisy, by telling me not to do what you are doing.
            I do care about integrity. MP is on the Right? I am someone from the left-of-centre and so is the Labour Party. Are you and if not why do you always troll people on this site.

          • rekrab

            My son is studying A level history, Modern studies, English, Chemistry, media studies and is currently busy writing an essay on the great reform acts. Clearly you have a lot of spare time on your hands?

          • rekrab

            My son is studying A level history, Modern studies, English, Chemistry, media studies and is currently busy writing an essay on the great reform acts. Clearly you have a lot of spare time on your hands?

          • rekrab

            My son is studying A level history, Modern studies, English, Chemistry, media studies and is currently busy writing an essay on the great reform acts. Clearly you have a lot of spare time on your hands?

          • aracataca

            Leave it Renie. 
            He’s not worth it and you won’t get anywhere. 

            Let’s get back to a proper debate. Irrespective of the possible merits of UC we we should be raising hell over the government’s plans to introduce Universal Credit-not least because its imposition next year is going to signal administrative chaos that may make the poll tax look like a storm in a tea cup.

          • AlanGiles

             Anything that Duncan-Smith turns his hand to is a disaster (as his “leadership” 2002/3 proved), the trouble is of course that a great number of vulnerable people are going to be hurt while the fool is allowed to shamble his way through the DWP. Cameron should have insisted on moving him in his reshuffle instead of allowing him to do what he liked.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            Clearly. He’s a troll

            I think we should calm down on the ‘aggro’ and get proper reform of the Universal Credit before it is implemented, otherwise we would look deeply tribal and attacking from the sidelines. I reckon Osborne will prevail and the Coalition will drop Universal Credit, which would allow Labour to co-opt the policy, improve it and introduce it in government. Seddon’s proposals as well as making it biweekly also exempting contributory benefits is the right way forward, in my view.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            Clearly. He’s a troll

            I think we should calm down on the ‘aggro’ and get proper reform of the Universal Credit before it is implemented, otherwise we would look deeply tribal and attacking from the sidelines. I reckon Osborne will prevail and the Coalition will drop Universal Credit, which would allow Labour to co-opt the policy, improve it and introduce it in government. Seddon’s proposals as well as making it biweekly also exempting contributory benefits is the right way forward, in my view.

          • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

            Clearly. He’s a troll

            I think we should calm down on the ‘aggro’ and get proper reform of the Universal Credit before it is implemented, otherwise we would look deeply tribal and attacking from the sidelines. I reckon Osborne will prevail and the Coalition will drop Universal Credit, which would allow Labour to co-opt the policy, improve it and introduce it in government. Seddon’s proposals as well as making it biweekly also exempting contributory benefits is the right way forward, in my view.

          • aracataca

            Leave it Renie. 
            He’s not worth it and you won’t get anywhere. 

            Let’s get back to a proper debate. Irrespective of the possible merits of UC we we should be raising hell over the government’s plans to introduce Universal Credit-not least because its imposition next year is going to signal administrative chaos that may make the poll tax look like a storm in a tea cup.

          • AlanGiles

             Anything that Duncan-Smith turns his hand to is a disaster (as his “leadership” 2002/3 proved), the trouble is of course that a great number of vulnerable people are going to be hurt while the fool is allowed to shamble his way through the DWP. Cameron should have insisted on moving him in his reshuffle instead of allowing him to do what he liked.

          • AlanGiles

             Anything that Duncan-Smith turns his hand to is a disaster (as his “leadership” 2002/3 proved), the trouble is of course that a great number of vulnerable people are going to be hurt while the fool is allowed to shamble his way through the DWP. Cameron should have insisted on moving him in his reshuffle instead of allowing him to do what he liked.

          • aracataca

            Leave it Renie. 
            He’s not worth it and you won’t get anywhere. 

            Let’s get back to a proper debate. Irrespective of the possible merits of UC we we should be raising hell over the government’s plans to introduce Universal Credit-not least because its imposition next year is going to signal administrative chaos that may make the poll tax look like a storm in a tea cup.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jim.crowder2 Jim Crowder

    For a so called “progressive party” Labour is very reluctant to move forward, seemingly preferring the status quo.

    • AlanGiles

       Jim, would you not agree that if, in “moving forwards” you are actually making the poorest and most vulnerable in society go backwards then it is in fact a retrograde step?

      The trouble with people like Iain “Bettsygate” Smith is that they really do not understand the circumstances some people in this country are in. Sadly this also applies to many Labour characters of recent years.

    • Brumanuensis

      Stepping of a cliff edge isn’t really the same as going forwards.

    • Brumanuensis

      Stepping of a cliff edge isn’t really the same as going forwards.

    • Brumanuensis

      Stepping of a cliff edge isn’t really the same as going forwards.

  • WelfareReformer

    I can understand why most people involved in scrutinising and influencing the Government’s Universal Benefit programme are worried, this is a long way off the original plan that was being touted by IDS two years ago. And because the legislation was rushed, involving very little of the detail now having to be worked out, the cracks in the painting are starting to show.

    But that doesn’t mean that Univeral Credit is a completely flawed idea. Back before the election when the Centre for Social Justice published their detailed plan for Universal Credit many of the organisations were sitting up right and taking notice. Why? Well because it was: a) well designed, b) not punitive, c) addressed a key problem with the benefit’s system we already have – it is very complex.

    The argument that Labour should be making is why has IDS abandoned so much of what he wanted to achieve with Universal Credit, and why is he trying to do it on the cheap?

    Reforming an overly complex, dehumanising system full of sand traps is a good thing but you can’t undertake something that huge whilst trying to cut benefit spending by huge amounts too.  

  • Dave Postles

     ’But he won’t because Byrne is’  Is this some sort of competition in which you supply your own adjective or noun?  Don’t tempt or tease.

  • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

    That is probably because the Universal Credit is not a bad idea in principle and it would be wrong of us to completely oppose something which does have the potential to be a good idea which could truly reform welfare. Labour should instead back Prof. John Seddon’s proposals for a Universal Credit, and oppose Universal Credit being delivered via an IT programme. Also, it should just be non-contributory benefits paid in cash and delivered fortnightly rather than monthly.

    • david

      The concept of Universal Credit is a good one, not least because if it is designed properly it can help stop benefit underclaiming and help the state get a fully rounded view of the needs of each family/claimant. The problem is that moving to such a system is very, very complicated, and that the Government is rushing it and doing it in a harsh way. There are a lot of examples of areas where different systems are being harmonised in a way which deliberately levels down and takes money away from people who were previously getting it.

      Can’t help feeling that the change from fortnightly to monthly payment will be greeted with whoops of delight in the boardroom of wonga.com.

  • http://twitter.com/redrenie24 Renie Anjeh

    Agreed.

  • AlanGiles

    Totally agree Dave. Except, of course, we are both totally wrong. Master Anjie is the expert when it comes to talking about welfare payments to adults and how trades uniuon members shgould conduct themselves. That lad knows it all :-)

  • Brumanuensis

    The fundamental problem with IDS’ changes is that they’ll only really work to the full – if they work at all – if more money is allocated to the welfare budget. However, Osborne has made it clear he wants further cuts in social security, meaning that the chances of IDS getting the extra funds he wants are non-existent. 

    The central problems of welfare are excessive means-testing and excessively high withdrawal rates from benefits. If the government wants to reduce the withdrawal rate, it will have to be prepared to spend more money in the short-term, to save money in the long-term. But it won’t of course.

  • Brumanuensis

    The fundamental problem with IDS’ changes is that they’ll only really work to the full – if they work at all – if more money is allocated to the welfare budget. However, Osborne has made it clear he wants further cuts in social security, meaning that the chances of IDS getting the extra funds he wants are non-existent. 

    The central problems of welfare are excessive means-testing and excessively high withdrawal rates from benefits. If the government wants to reduce the withdrawal rate, it will have to be prepared to spend more money in the short-term, to save money in the long-term. But it won’t of course.

    • AlanGiles

       Totally right Brum. When governments (any government) talks of “reform” what they really mean is budget reduction, and so, in addition to raising the bar higher for would-be claimants, so that it becomes difficult or even impossible for them to qualify, they try to do it on the cheap.

      It will be interesting, in a ghoulish sort of way, to see this struggle between Osborne and Duncan-Smith, because Osborne is bound to win and Smith will be wishing he had done as he was told and gone off to the justice ministry.

  • Brumanuensis

    The fundamental problem with IDS’ changes is that they’ll only really work to the full – if they work at all – if more money is allocated to the welfare budget. However, Osborne has made it clear he wants further cuts in social security, meaning that the chances of IDS getting the extra funds he wants are non-existent. 

    The central problems of welfare are excessive means-testing and excessively high withdrawal rates from benefits. If the government wants to reduce the withdrawal rate, it will have to be prepared to spend more money in the short-term, to save money in the long-term. But it won’t of course.

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    Does anyone think, leaving aside whether Universal Credit is a good or bad idea, that in practical terms this can be implemented without some new computer disaster?  I heard a good debate yesterday on the Radio 4 in which some credible experts and indeed a business leader were all sceptical, and it appeared to me to be reasonable for them to be sceptical.

    In particular, there was mention that at the heart of this programme is something called a “real time information system”, so that changes to circumstances can be updated very quickly.  This does not sound simple or cheap for a nation of 70 million, but I am no expert on these systems.

    Fear of complex programmes should be no reason to not do something if it is a good idea, but experience should also teach us that for whatever reason Government computer programmes very often go badly wrong, and cost many times the amount of money first considered.  Perhaps this programme would be better implemented in incremental stages rather than as a “big bang”.

    • AlanGiles

       Good morning Jaime. I certainly think there should have been a well-controlled pilot scheme before even attempting to roll something of this magnitude out.

      Your point about governments and computer systems is well made – we have had so many examples of things going badly wrong in the past – passports, CSA NHS etc.

      What I find particularly worrying in this situation is that if (or rather when) it goes wrong the people hurt will genuinely be the ones who can least afford it to go wrong.

      And to be a pit partisan: Duncan-Smith is a shambling disaster. Everything he touches goes wrong, and he is a man more given to preening and posturing than practicalities. His overweening sense of self-importance will be his undoing, but, sadly, he will damage a lot of people more than he gets damaged himself.

    • AlanGiles

       Good morning Jaime. I certainly think there should have been a well-controlled pilot scheme before even attempting to roll something of this magnitude out.

      Your point about governments and computer systems is well made – we have had so many examples of things going badly wrong in the past – passports, CSA NHS etc.

      What I find particularly worrying in this situation is that if (or rather when) it goes wrong the people hurt will genuinely be the ones who can least afford it to go wrong.

      And to be a pit partisan: Duncan-Smith is a shambling disaster. Everything he touches goes wrong, and he is a man more given to preening and posturing than practicalities. His overweening sense of self-importance will be his undoing, but, sadly, he will damage a lot of people more than he gets damaged himself.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      I think benefits are really far too personal and complex to be left to computer programs. Deciding on eligibility really can’t be done in that way

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

    I really don’t know.

    The very worst time to have a major reform of benefits is during a recession. Just on practical levels there are issues which mean this will probably fail.

    However, I think there are very good reasons why this sort of proposal is actually quite dangerous – ans why it hasn’t been done before!

  • AlanGiles

     Exactly, Mike. It is typical of Duncan-Smith’s boneheadedness that he is even attempting it, especially without treasury backing. And for exactly the same reason the Brown government were wrong in 2009, just as the financial crisis had begun to go for welfare reform at that time. With so many able-bodied people unable to find work, it has hard to understand how they thought the long term sick and disabled would fare any better.

    As before, the only people who will suffer are those who can’t aafford to – literally.

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