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Sadiq Khan is right: some British people “know bugger all” about our country

October 26, 2012 5:19 pm

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Mark Ferguson

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Have you ever taken the UK citizenship test? If you were born in Britain, then you almost certainly won’t have done – as you don’t need to. You’re British citizenship was in all likelihood conferred on you at around the same time you got your NHS number, and perhaps even before you had a name.

I’ve taken the UK citizenship test, just to see how I’d do. I failed. Quite badly. 17 out of 24 was my best effort. Despite being (theoretically) well educated, having decent general knowledge (love a good pub quiz), being a political obsessive and studying history at school, I failed the UK citizenship test. Despite living all but one year of my life in this special country of ours, I failed.

So Sadiq Khan is right when he says that:

“I’ll be canvassing in my area and there’ll be people who have lived in the same home for three or four or five generations who know bugger all about our country, about our heritage. It frustrates me that you’ve got new citizens who have an obligation to learn about our country but we aren’t doing enough to make sure everyone shares that knowledge.”

The UK citizenship test is tough (at least I hope it is, or I feel even worse for failing it), but those who pass it tend to feel a real sense of achievement, and I hope a sense of belonging too. But it’s a shame that many citizens born and brought up in this country, steeped in its history and informed by its culture and traditions, don’t always have the same level of knowledge that recent immigrants are expected to have. Some Tories have ludicrously suggested that Khan wants to abolish the citizenship test. That’s clearly nonsense, if you read what he’s saying, it’s clearly a call to include all British people, wherever we’re from, in the culture and history of Britain.

One Nation surely demands that we all understand where modern Britain came from, if we’re to truly understand where we’re going – wherever we originally came from. At the moment, it seems that some British people do “know bugger all” about Britain – or at least not enough to pass the UK citizenship. Including – I am ashamed to say – your humble editor.

(Feel free to post your own scores in the comments below – no cheating)

http://twitter.com/johnringer John Ringer

I’ve lived in the UK for four years and managed to pass this test on my first try…
Quiet_Sceptic

Having just had a go at the test, it seems quite divorced from an appreciation of British history or culture, the questions are multiple choice and most based on knowing specific facts rather than an appreciation of cultural values or norms of behaviour.

How does knowing the minimum number of school days per year, the maximum number of hours a child is allowed to work per week or some minor minutiae about the state benefit system equate to an appreciation of the British culture?
- Hugh
  
  Testing the minutiae is the only way to ensure the basic principle is studied carefully: once you’ve learnt the precise date divorce was legalised it’s hard to forget it’s a very firmly established legal right.
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    I agree with the direction of your thinking, but there are some poorly worded questions. For instance the one on hospital visits. You do not need a GP’s letter to arrive at a hospital to give birth***, and yet that is not defined as an emergency in medical terms. The way the question is worded, it could be seen as a requirement for a GP’s letter before doing so.
    
    *** There are a few other cases when you can go straight to a hospital, but it is not an emergency. But, not very many, and the overall proportion is small.
    - rekrab
      
      Reminds me of a pregnant lady phoning from a high rise in Cran-Hill,
      ‘Lady 999 call’
      Operator’ Yes, how can I help’
      Lady I’m pregnant, I need an ambulance’
      Operator, you can’t get an ambulance just because your pregnant’
      Lady’ but my waters have broke’
      Operator’ O’ right! where are your “RINGING” from’
      Lady’ from my thighs to my ankles………….
    - PaulHalsall
      
      There are lots of cases where you do not need a GPs letter to arrive at the hospital. For example, if you have HIV, your care is normally coordinated at the hospital and not through the GP.
      
      In addition in many areas, GUM (i.e. VD or STD) clinics are at hospitals, and you do not need a GP’s letter.
      
      Many of the other questions also admitted of more possible answers than the test allowed.
- Brumanuensis
  
  Hugh is right. It’s knowing the details that counts. Rather reminds me about how the music group ‘Van Halen’ used to have a rider about no brown M&Ms being served backstage. The point wasn’t that they hated brown M&Ms, it was that they wanted to check that their contractors were paying attention.
  
  http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/van-halens-legendary-mms-rider
  - Quiet_Sceptic
    
    It doesn’t work.
    
    The number of unique, memorable facts about British history is verging on limitless, therefore the course content will by necessity contain a specific number of chosen/hand-picked facts.
    
    No doubt the past papers and syllabus will be available so it won’t be difficult to identify a range of specific questions and memorise the necessary facts/answers.
    - Hugh
      
      ”No doubt the past papers and syllabus will be available so it won’t be
      difficult to identify a range of specific questions and memorise the
      necessary facts/answers.”
      
      Yes, and that’s the point of it, surely. They’re not trying to ensure every immigrant has a comprehensive knowledge of British history or has developed a deep affection for PG Tips; they’re trying to ensure they know some basic facts about the more important laws and cultural norms of this country.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
Monkey_Bach

I scored 22 out of 24 (92%) in 2 minutes and I’m only a monkey. Eeek.
- Alexwilliamz
  
  swot. Did you cheat and read the study guide.
  - Monkey_Bach
    
    The Infinite Monkey Theorem states that were I to hit keys on a typewriter, randomly, for an infinite amount of time I would almost certainly end up typing out a humane, socially just, economically sound and practical Labour Party manifesto. Which is something I am beginning to feel almost obliged to do since, after two and a half years, Labour seems worryingly vacuous as far as policy is concerned… as far as I can see… looking down from the heights of my tree.
    (Liam Byrne is my uncle by the way.)
Serbitar

Bugger Hall? Is that a stately home? Or an Oxbridge college?
- TomFairfax
  
  Possibly a good new name for the palace of westminster given the notice the occupants take of people who aren’t professional lobbyists or providing large donations.
- rekrab
  
  It’s where Edward the II favoured.
Hugh

I disagree – it’s not surprising or relevant that you failed. There’s no earthly reason someone should know off the top of their head precisely whether children can work 10 or 12 hours during a school week, whether schools open 190 or 200 days a year, if the Muslim population was 1.6 or 2.7% in 2001 or even if divorce became legal in 1875 or 1882.

The point of testing immigrants surely is to test that they have carefully read and absorbed this information, so that – for instance – they are aware that divorce is a well established legal right; that most do not subscribe to Islam; and that children must spend most of their year in school not in employment, for example. Also, ancillary to that, to ensure there’s some sense of cultural heritage (names for the Anglican church and dialects throughout the UK).

The vast majority who have lived here all their lives already know the things the citizenship test is seeking to establish, even if they’ve forgotten the precise details. The only reason for insisting those taking it do learn the details is to prove they’ve genuinely studied it at taken it on board (as far as is possible).

Of course, better public knowlege of British history would be good (blame the curriculum for that), but the citizenship test is testing something slightly different.
Quiet_Sceptic

It’s interesting how this outburst has been spun, if this had come from a Tory there’d be howls of protest.

Apparently showing contempt for the working class is OK if you purport to represent them.
- JoeDM
  
  But this has been the default Labour position since Tony, Gordon & Mandy created New Labour 20 years ago.
- Brumanuensis
  
  What, so are you arguing that in fact the average British citizen knows a great deal about his or her country’s history?
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Well, they should know a great deal. If they do not, their is some sadness that they do not.
    
    I remember a history test when I was about 15, we had to write one fact from Chile’s history for each year since nationhood (1810), and then we stood up in the class to be asked questions about one year in particular, and why those facts were important. Even in a small country, you can find facts for each year – I remember noting that in 1893 Esteban Llanos Consera noted that our high desert in the Atacama was perfect for observing the skies for reasons of a lack of humidity, and he was correct – many observatories are now founded there.
    
    When I see young British people, I doubt that they could do this for the history of their own country. The dates of 1215 and 1642 mean little to our young people, but they should. The young people cannot also speak grammatically, in foreign languages, have a sense of geography, or mostly make sense of any of the natural sciences****. This is because we have modern teachers, who are completely useless in their main function of preparing young people for life.
    
    **** Here is a good example. There is much whining about youth unemployment, but when people cannot pass such simple tests at the age of 17 to get a job in a Formula One team which should be attractive, it is time to acknowledge a total failure of our educational system. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9638334/Williams-F1-struggling-to-find-recruits-with-maths-skills.html If young people cannot perform simple mathematical tests in their heads and with confidence, what hope do we have?
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Well, they should know a great deal. If they do not, their is some sadness that they do not.
    
    I remember a history test when I was about 15, we had to write one fact from Chile’s history for each year since nationhood (1810), and then we stood up in the class to be asked questions about one year in particular, and why those facts were important. Even in a small country, you can find facts for each year – I remember stating that in 1893 Esteban Llanos Consera noted that our high desert in the Atacama was perfect for observing the skies for reasons of a lack of humidity, and he was correct – many observatories are now founded there. More importantly, he obtained funding from the USA to prove his hypothesis, which brought Americans to Chile in some numbers, and that affected the post-Bolivarian settlements.
    
    When I see young British people, I doubt that they could do this for the history of their own country. The dates of 1215 and 1642 mean little to our young people, but they should. The young people cannot also speak grammatically, in foreign languages, have a sense of geography, or mostly make sense of any of the natural sciences****. This is because we have modern teachers, who are completely useless in their main function of preparing young people for life.
    
    **** Here is a good example. There is much whining about youth unemployment, but when people cannot pass such simple tests at the age of 17 to get a job in a Formula One team which should be attractive, it is time to acknowledge a total failure of our educational system. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9638334/Williams-F1-struggling-to-find-recruits-with-maths-skills.html If young people cannot perform simple mathematical tests in their heads and with confidence, what hope do we have?
    
    **** And goodness knows about the young woman who has lost her stomach after drinking a “cocktail” including liquid nitrogen. She was 18 and had the “benefit” of modern British education, although it seems not to have taken hold in her. What on earth did she think would happen on drinking liquid nitrogen? And of the bar-tender, bar-owner, etc. Has our society no understanding of basic physics? It appears not.
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Well, they should know a great deal. If they do not, their is some sadness that they do not.
    
    I remember a history test when I was about 15, we had to write one fact from Chile’s history for each year since nationhood (1810), and then we stood up in the class to be asked questions about one year in particular, and why those facts were important. Even in a small country, you can find facts for each year – I remember stating that in 1893 Esteban Llanos Consera noted that our high desert in the Atacama was perfect for observing the skies for reasons of a lack of humidity, and he was correct – many observatories are now founded there. More importantly, he obtained funding from the USA to prove his hypothesis, which brought Americans to Chile in some numbers, and that affected the post-Bolivarian settlements.
    
    When I see young British people, I doubt that they could do this for the history of their own country. The dates of 1215 and 1642 mean little to our young people, but they should. The young people cannot also speak grammatically, in foreign languages, have a sense of geography, or mostly make sense of any of the natural sciences****. This is because we have modern teachers, who are completely useless in their main function of preparing young people for life.
    
    **** Here is a good example. There is much whining about youth unemployment, but when people cannot pass such simple tests at the age of 17 to get a job in a Formula One team which should be attractive, it is time to acknowledge a total failure of our educational system. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9638334/Williams-F1-struggling-to-find-recruits-with-maths-skills.html If young people cannot perform simple mathematical tests in their heads and with confidence, what hope do we have?
    
    **** And goodness knows about the young woman who has lost her stomach after drinking a “cocktail” including liquid nitrogen. She was 18 and had the “benefit” of modern British education, although it seems not to have taken hold in her. What on earth did she think would happen on drinking liquid nitrogen? And of the bar-tender, bar-owner, etc. Has our society no understanding of basic physics? It appears not.
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Well, they should know a great deal. If they do not, their is some sadness that they do not.
    
    I remember a history test when I was about 15, we had to write one fact from Chile’s history for each year since nationhood (1810), and then we stood up in the class to be asked questions about one year in particular, and why those facts were important. Even in a small country, you can find facts for each year – I remember stating that in 1893 Esteban Llanos Consera noted that our high desert in the Atacama was perfect for observing the skies for reasons of a lack of humidity, and he was correct – many observatories are now founded there. More importantly, he obtained funding from the USA to prove his hypothesis, which brought Americans to Chile in some numbers, and that affected the post-Bolivarian settlements.
    
    When I see young British people, I doubt that they could do this for the history of their own country. The dates of 1215 and 1642 mean little to our young people, but they should. The young people cannot also speak grammatically, in foreign languages, have a sense of geography, or mostly make sense of any of the natural sciences****. This is because we have modern teachers, who are completely useless in their main function of preparing young people for life.
    
    **** Here is a good example. There is much whining about youth unemployment, but when people cannot pass such simple tests at the age of 17 to get a job in a Formula One team which should be attractive, it is time to acknowledge a total failure of our educational system. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9638334/Williams-F1-struggling-to-find-recruits-with-maths-skills.html If young people cannot perform simple mathematical tests in their heads and with confidence, what hope do we have?
    
    **** And goodness knows about the young woman who has lost her stomach after drinking a “cocktail” including liquid nitrogen. She was 18 and had the “benefit” of modern British education, although it seems not to have taken hold in her. What on earth did she think would happen on drinking liquid nitrogen? And of the bar-tender, bar-owner, etc. Has our society no understanding of basic physics? It appears not.
  - jaime taurosangastre candelas
    
    Well, they should know a great deal. If they do not, their is some sadness that they do not.
    
    I remember a history test when I was about 15, we had to write one fact from Chile’s history for each year since nationhood (1810), and then we stood up in the class to be asked questions about one year in particular, and why those facts were important. Even in a small country, you can find facts for each year – I remember stating that in 1893 Esteban Llanos Consera noted that our high desert in the Atacama was perfect for observing the skies for reasons of a lack of humidity, and he was correct – many observatories are now founded there. More importantly, he obtained funding from the USA to prove his hypothesis, which brought Americans to Chile in some numbers, and that affected the post-Bolivarian settlements.
    
    When I see young British people, I doubt that they could do this for the history of their own country. The dates of 1215 and 1642 mean little to our young people, but they should. The young people cannot also speak grammatically, in foreign languages, have a sense of geography, or mostly make sense of any of the natural sciences****. This is because we have modern teachers, who are completely useless in their main function of preparing young people for life.
    
    **** Here is a good example. There is much whining about youth unemployment, but when people cannot pass such simple tests at the age of 17 to get a job in a Formula One team which should be attractive, it is time to acknowledge a total failure of our educational system. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9638334/Williams-F1-struggling-to-find-recruits-with-maths-skills.html If young people cannot perform simple mathematical tests in their heads and with confidence, what hope do we have?
    
    **** And goodness knows about the young woman who has lost her stomach after drinking a “cocktail” including liquid nitrogen. She was 18 and had the “benefit” of modern British education, although it seems not to have taken hold in her. What on earth did she think would happen on drinking liquid nitrogen? And of the bar-tender, bar-owner, etc. Has our society no understanding of basic physics? It appears not.
    - Brumanuensis
      
      I agree with half your reply, the first half.
      
      I don’t agree with your assessment of teachers; I think the way the National Curriculum operates is to blame, which is the fault of all previous governments from Thatcher onwards. I do agree that the state of maths is poor and needs work, particularly on mental arithmetic, which I had drummed into me from an early age – my father used to test my times tables on the way to school, it was a different time.
      
      But I also think you are being far too harsh on the poor girl who lost her stomach. She’d already drunk one such cocktail without adverse effect and was entitled to believe that the bar staff were sufficiently trained in the use of the chemical that it wouldn’t pose a risk to her health. Liquid nitrogen cocktails aren’t harmful if properly prepared, but unfortunately in this case the negligence of the bar led to her suffering serious physical injury. We all perform statistically dangerous activities daily, but that doesn’t mean we have to bear the full moral hazard if something goes wrong. People driving cars or working in the construction industry are putting themselves at increased risk of death or serious injury, but we don’t automatically blame them if they are involved in a car accident or are hurt on-site.
  - Quiet_Sceptic
    
    It’s often not what people think which gets them into trouble but the way they express it.
    
    Saying that some working class people ‘know bugger all’ about our country smacks of arrogance.
Alexwilliamz

You are better Brit than me. To be honest I am appalled at what we consider ‘citizenworthy’ information. Of course in reality there will be a study guide so it will come done to mugging up and repeating stuff parrot fashion. In many ways it is the epitome of exams.
Ruth Billheimer

I failed and got 67% but a lot of my answers were just wild guesses – I don’t drive so I’ve no idea about speed limits, I don’t know how many hours children are allowed to work, etc. As an example, a more appropriate choice for the latter question would be 12 hours or 30 hours – that would show a better understanding of what kind of country Britain is. Is it the kind of country that allows children to work full time or only a few hours? That’s more approriate for a citizenship test than the actual number of hours, a choice betwen 10 and 12. I don’t think the people who drew the test up had much of a grasp of what citizenship means.
postageincluded

You could get 100% scores on this test every time and still have no feeling for the customs and ethos of this country and no understanding of its people. There is something repellently Gradgrindian about the whole excercise, hard facts for hard times. It’s also fatuous – most of the questions refer to facts that most of us will never have a use for and if we did need them the internet can easily provide.

If Sadiq Khan was saying the test is wrong-headed and pointless I would agree with him. I think it is one of the more shameful acts of the New Labour hegemony and should be abandoned. But he appears rather to be saying that everyone who can’t pass it is somehow less of a citizen than someone who can.

There is something contemptibly snide in Khan’s comments about “people who have lived in the same home for three or four or five generations”, a striving cosmopolitan sneering freely at us complacent provincials. This is no way for a Labour MP to talk about the ordinary working people of the country. He should resign.
Serbitar

I would be interested in seeing how our Members of Parliament would score in a test like this without preparation.
PaulHalsall

I just did the test, and passed (20 out of 24), but many of the questions are ludicrous. What does it matter if you know how many millions of teenagers there are, or what year women could initiate divorce?

There must be better sorts of tests than this.

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Sadiq Khan is right: some British people “know bugger all” about our country

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Where are the women over 50 on our TV screens?

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Watson urges investigation of “supressed” Leveson evidence – Media roundup: May 21st, 2013

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