Anonymous Labour MPs. Seriously. You need to Put Up or Shut Up

9th November, 2014 10:04 am

rose_in_water.jpg

As we’ve reported already this morning, the newspaper headlines make grim reading for Labour today. In every paper there are briefings and anonymous whispers from unnamed MPs and Shadow Ministers, all very willing to stick the knife in, but none with the guts to come out and state publicly that they think Miliband should go. Perhaps the most damaging piece of the weekend from the point of view is in the Observer, who claim that at least 20 Shadow Ministers are “on the brink”, “ready to strike” and other similarly florid terms. Yet the piece seems to be a second hand retelling, coming from more anonymous “senior” (they’re always senior aren’t they?) MPs.

The Labour Party stands this morning essentially where we’ve stood for a number of days now. The rebels are anonymous, the briefings are in the shadows. “Death by a thousand cuts” appears to be the disastrous weapon of choice. Which brings us back to the LabourList Editorial we posted on Friday. We don’t normally publish joint editorial pieces – but at LabourList our editorial team all agreed that these anonymous Labour MPs need to “Put Up or Shut Up”.

And so today, we want to send that message out again loud and clear – and if you agree, we’d like you to sign our editorial too – and tell those Labour MPs briefing the papers to Put Up or Shut Up – which you can do here.

For those who missed it on Friday – here’s what we wrote:

We still think Ed Miliband is the right person to lead the Labour Party – and that there’s no widespread desire for a leadership contest in the PLP, amongst activists and party members or in the wider Labour family.

But we have a clear message for the anonymous rebels on Labour’s benches – if you feel differently, you have a very clear choice ahead of you:

Put Up – If you think Ed Miliband should step down as leader, then have the basic decency to say it publicly, rather than skulking in the shadows. Announce that you want a leadership contest and call for Miliband to step down. If you think that’s the best decision for the party, then have the guts to say so. And while we’re on, simply griping that Miliband needs to do better without offering anyone as an alternative is profoundly damaging not just to Miliband, but to candidates in key seats and the millions of people who need a Labour government.

Shut Up – if you don’t want to voice your discontent publicly, that’s fine. You won’t be the first person to take part in a campaign and fall in behind a leader who no longer has your support – and trust me, you won’t be the last. But if you haven’t got what it takes to challenge Miliband with your name attached, don’t do it at all. Join the rest of us who accept politics is imperfect and that we won’t always get what we want, and work for a Labour government regardless.

Death by a thousand cuts – this is probably the worst option of the three, and thus isn’t an option that’s sustainable at all. Unfortunately, it’s the one that our would be rebels have adopted so far. It involves a sustained campaign of briefing, sniping and anonymous attacks. It risks a repeat of 2010 – a Labour leader under attack from their own side who arrives at the election bloodied and traduced. Labour members – not least those who read LabourList each day – will not forgive those who behave in this cowardly fashion once again.

Of course there are legitimate concerns about Labour’s policy platform and issues with the coherence and clarity of the party’s vision for Britain. Many of them have been voiced on this site, and will continue to be as long as they exist.

But when it comes to the question of party leadership, the dividing line is a simple one. Put up and say your piece. Or shut up and fight for Miliband to be Prime Minister. The third road – the road we’re on so far – is only travelled by the disreputable, whose behaviour won’t be forgiven if it helps David Cameron and the Tories back to power next year.

Signed:

Mark Ferguson, Editor

Emma Burnell, Contributing Editor

Stefan Stern, Contributing Editor

Maya Goodfellow, Staff Writer

Conor Pope, Staff Writer

You can sign our editorial by clicking here.

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  • Robin Banks

    Please remember folks the top priority of the greatest importance is a Labour Victory 2015

    • Matthew Blott

      Absolutely. But the strong evidence is this would be far more likely to happen with someone else leading the party.

      • Markham Weavill

        Change leader without changing policy? That appears to be what the anonymous cowards want. Nothing I’ve read, seen or heard suggests this bunch have any more idea how to “connect” with disenchanted voters than Miliband. They’re part of the 35% brigade who were hoping to keep their heads below the parapet until Labour scraped into power. The Scottish rebellion has put a hole in that strategy and now they are thrashing about like headless chickens.

        • reformist lickspittle

          Yes, a good summary.

          They really are the most unprincipled, spineless bunch.

          One of the “plot leaders” (we can be pretty sure of this now) made a complete dick of himself at PMQs recently when he said basically that Labour should out-UKIP UKIP on immigration.

          If he likes UKIP that much, he can go and join them 😉

          • paul oxley

            Austin should be deselected

        • Robin Banks

          2 policies at least need changing 1 Fans in the boardroom.2 creation of a Senate these 2 policies are jokes we should be nationalising Energy without compensation.

          • gunnerbear

            There are millions of people – working men and women – who have pensions schemes that have invested heavily in the utilities…..so your plan to offer no compensation would smash those who you want to help (let alone if the Courts would allow it).

          • Robin Banks

            Bollox Gunnerbear that’s your excuse to do nothing in reality the French and Germans own utilities they were warned on Privatisation!! We really have to sideline moaning cunts like you.

          • gunnerbear

            I didn’t say it was an excuse to do nothing…..just that there are impacts on all sorts of things if HMG decides to confiscate private property without compensation. The Courts have made that very clear in the past given the use of CPOs etc.

          • Robin Banks

            gunnerbear cant believe you!! let me go through it slowly we sold assets at a fraction of the price then we paid for Electric and gas generation all the private companies have done is bank it and keep the proceeds!! the courts implement law change it so bloody simple.

          • gunnerbear

            Right, so you want pensioners and savers to pay for something that happened decades ago….when more than a few of todays savers weren’t even able to vote (nor were in even in the workforce at the time). I agree – the Courts tend to uphold UK laws – if HMG changed the law, the Courts would be bound to – subject to judicial reviews and ironically challenges to the EU – right to private property etc. (bet if you look hard enough it’s even in the HRA).

          • Robin Banks

            I do not accept UK pensioners are involved in foreign companies, the French and Gerries will kick up a stink sure they want to own Britain. and we wouldn’t have to withdraw from anything you are talking like a UKIP Moron behave yourself.

          • Markham Weavill

            I agree with you up to a point. However, most of the utilities are now owned by foreign companies or hedge funds so pension funds wouldn’t take as big a hit as some of the nay sayers want the voter to believe. Besides I’d expect any competent fund manager to divest their holdings before the shares slide too far. Added to that the funds have already milked high dividends from them.

            I do agree about the courts. Hardly surprising given they are in the pockets of the very conservative Establishment. Property is always more important than people to them. It would also be a field day for lawyers. Think of the hours (years) they could bill for as any case wended its way through the legal morass that is commercial law.

          • wycombewanderer

            You advocate leaving the EU then as to nationalise energy provision at all let alone without compensation would be illegal.

            Nice rhetoric shame about the reality!

          • Robin Banks

            Where on earth do you get it from that I advocate leaving EU?? when I said French and Germans own utilities I meant those in the UK!!Stop guessing and stick to the subject matter, if we do everything by Thatcher’s laws we are knackered we do what she did write the law!! We will have time if we ar’nt doing lunatic stuff like putting fans in boardrooms and organising senates what else do you want in manifesto classes in flower arranging??

          • wycombewanderer

            Because labour could not re-nationalise the energy companies without leaving the EU.

            It really is quite simple!

          • Robin Banks

            don’t talk bollox French and german have nationalised companies!! you are another brainwashed by UKIP.

          • wycombewanderer

            nationalised not re-nationalised, there’s a difference.

          • Robin Banks

            Wycombewanderer if bullshit was snow there would be a blizzard.

          • wycombewanderer

            Then you’re in for a disappointment.

            The EU isn’t going to change it’s rule s just because you happen to not like them.

      • noname1212

        Until they become leader that is!!
        Switching leader because the Daily Mail and BBC want Labour to is suicide at anytime let alone 6 months from election

        • Matthew Blott

          Not really. My reservations of Miliband had more to do with personality than politics – I thought he was a bit too weird to appeal widely and thus it has proved. You’re right that there isn’t an obvious alternative (Alan Johnson is not the messiah some seem to think he is) but it shouldn’t be too hard to find someone who does at least look and sound normal.

          • noname1212

            I am sorry Matthew but the fact is I have not seen or heard a single story that is based on you or anyone else publicly saying get rid of ed for this or that reason, I have seen BBC and the Mail saying campaigning ( yes campaigning) to git rid of ED.
            Labour have a leader and need to crack on with fighting the election, now he may have a different style than people are used to but do we really want another Gordon Brown or heaven forbid Tony Blair dominating the party and agenda!

          • Matthew Blott

            I have issues with Blair and he hasn’t covered himself in glory since leaving office but I’d prefer someone who at least wins elections.

          • noname1212

            yer right by sucking up to Murdoch or by turning into the third version of UKIP and banging on about immigration sorry some prices arn’t worth paying.
            Plus the fact is changing at the behest of the media is where we are at, not changing after the death of a great leader who had settled the divisions within the party, as such there is no leader who can take control without being divisive, certainly not Alan Johnson or Andy Burnham; so basically yer they should get behind Ed and win the next election,the alternative is to hand it on a silver platter and bended knee to the Tory Party

          • Doug Smith

            It’s been reported that Andy Burnham torpedoed a Johnson coup by threatening to mount a challenge.

            If there’s one thing the Blairites would fear more than Miliband it is Burnham, not least because of his popularity.

          • Matthew Blott

            What is a Blairite these days? I’m genuinely confused as it seems to be thrown around as an insult at anyone critical of the current leadership.

            I have my doubts about Burnham but would happily swap him for the current leader, he would excite the base and his honeymoon would give us a bounce in the polls. Won’t happen though.

          • Doug Smith

            “What is a Blairite these days?”

            Anyone who favours an approach to policy broadly similar to the New Labour approach.

          • Matthew Blott

            That’s what I always thought it meant. So why is it thrown around petulantly as a term of abuse at nobody in particular?

          • leslie48

            Agreed in the end a leader has to inspire, be visionary and most importantly be able to get votes. Ed has not done that. His unpopularity is unprecedented and with many of our core voters. Of course the media has been very manipulative but I am afraid that they have won on this one. In the end you have to go with the public mood in a democracy otherwise its another Kinnock ( we can never forget those working class Essex voters in 1992) or the Michael Foot massacre. If it would be done it be done quickly.

          • Doug Smith

            Your core voters, like myself, abandoned Labour because of Blair. Remember, New Labour lost nearly five million votes.

            The loss eventually resulted in Brown getting the old heave ho.

      • Robin Banks

        Fine if you think that that’s fine, too many are taking their eyes off the goal all i’m saying for fux sake we cannot must not place loyalty before victory as the immediate past shows we CAN have a new General.

    • Olly

      Not with Ed, no. He’s not up to the job. He’d be a disaster for the UK, esp. around foreign policy and economics. To work to get him elected would be to put party before country. When we have a serious leader who has the chops for the Big Job then we will have a right to power once again.

      • paul oxley

        Disaster on Foreign Policy? So stopping Dave replacing ASSAD with ISIS was disastrous was it?..A serious leader like brother David who still thinks there are WMDs in Iraq?

        Are you people for real?

        • Olly

          Yep, we’re for real. And we won three elections.

          • paul oxley

            Labour won three elections..Blair lost us
            Five million voters from 97 to 05

            Tony got less votes in England than Tory caretaker leader Michael Howard in 05

            How he has the cheek to stand at the Cenotaph when he caused so many deaths shows the brass neck of the man

          • Olly

            It’s going to be fun to see what you hard lefties have to say the day after the GE. I’m looking forward to that.

          • David Lewis

            They will pretend it never happened or suggest fraud as they always do.

          • paul oxley

            Suggest fraud? LOL..from.the party that
            always screams about Labours postal
            voting being a fiddle

            The only thing Cam ever got right was describing you lot as loonies and fruitcakes

          • David Lewis

            You think I’m a Tory still? Dense or not?

          • Dave Postles

            ‘The only thing Cam ever got right was describing you lot as loonies and fruitcakes’
            Who is dense? Do you really read what people write?

          • David Lewis

            That is the point. I am voting UKIP because Cameron is my MP and I disagree with him on most things.

            UKIP will win about five or so seats but the Conservatives will win outright by about fifteen seats.

            Labour will suffer a voting collapse rather in the same way as Kinnock.

            I was looking today at the percentage polling history of Labour over the last four years and it is all there.

            Labour cannot win.

          • Dave Postles

            No it’s not the point. This is what you said:

            ‘You think I’m a Tory still? Dense or not?’

            He implied that you are a UKIP voter, not a Tory. You write stuff which is completely witless. You acted as the dense one.

          • David Lewis

            I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

            However, I will clarify. I voted Conservative all my life until Cameron made it clear that he is a social democrat rather than a Conservative. He is my MP and I have met him a number of times.

            I do not want to vote for him so in consequence I am voting UKIP.

            If the Conservative party ever becomes conservative again, I will revert to them.

            I am not tribal by inclination and I believe that policies are more important than blind allegiance.

          • Dave Postles

            Still missing the point or being obtuse. He called you a UKIP voter. You accused him of calling you a Tory and so being dense. Wake up.

          • David Lewis

            But I am not a Tory. I don’t vote Tory. I am a UKIP voter. I just explained that. Which bit do you still not understand.

          • Dave Postles

            FFS. He called you a UKIP voter. You accused him of calling you a Tory and so being dense. You called him dense for calling you a Tory, but he called you a UKIP voter. Your denseness is becoming legendary in your own lifetime.

          • David Lewis

            No. I was a Tory. I am not now a Tory. I might again at sometime regain Torydom.

          • Dave Postles

            Vermiculture.

          • David Lewis

            Antedeluvian

          • Dave Postles

            Oh do learn to spell, please -and stop wriggling (vermiculture).

          • David Lewis

            Antediluvian – apologies but there we have it.

            I will win and you will lose.

            I’m out to dine now.

            Good evening.

          • Dave Postles

            Of course I won’t win – I vote Green in a Tory ‘rotten borough’.

          • David Lewis

            So in that respect you are similar to me!

            Good evening.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            I’m confused. You seem to be supportive of Ed here but you’re voting Green which if copied by enough others could land us with another five years of the Tories.

          • Doug Smith

            Seems like a win-win situation to me!

          • leslie48

            This getting like the dead parrot sketch

          • Mike Homfray

            So what exactly are you doing on LabourList?

          • Olly

            It’ll be the usual bleating about a biased media, Blairite plots, plus nobody gave Ed a chance, Murdoch controls everything anyway, big business, Tory stooges…all the Greatest Hits 🙂

          • paul oxley

            You two should get a room

          • David Lewis

            The pinnacle of the intellectual spectrum as usual.

          • David Lewis

            And the Jews of course (and the bankers and the pharmacy companies etc etc etc etc ).

            Oh, and Thatcher – I forgot about her

          • Sidney Ruff-Diamond

            You were suggesting fraud just last week after the South Yorkshire PCC election. I realise you’ve said in the past you’ve admitted you whore your vote about, but at least try not to be hypocritical in your criticisms.

          • David Lewis

            No that was not me. I have no reason to suggest fraud unless you have misread something.

            I certainly think before I vote if that is whoring. I am not a moronic triballist. I give deep consideration as to whose policies would be best for me and my family first and then the United Kingdom.

          • Sidney Ruff-Diamond

            On the LabourList article discussing the S. Yorks PCC election, you raised the issue of postal votes and Tower Hamlets. When I asked why Tower Hamlets was relevant to the PCC election in South Yorkshire, Your response was:

            “Yes, you guessed it – Labour postal voting fraud, largely expected in some northern towns too for the same reasons.”

            So yes, you suggested fraud. If you’re going to tell porky pies at least clear your posting history.

          • David Lewis

            There is an interesting piece in today’s Telegraph about postal voting irregularities in Tower Hamlets and the legal sanctions which are pending.

            There are very striking parallels in a number of Northern towns which you and I can list very quickly and easily.

          • leslie48

            Unfair remark Tony with our Allies removed a dreadful dictator who gassed, tortured and massacred people. What happened later was an insurgency by different Islamic groups whose extreme fanaticism and sectarianism led to their killing each other. It was not American nor UK or other allies who indulged in sectarian bombings. Our guys were there to help Iraq; it was others who used it to kill one another. We remember our troops today and this week.

          • Mike Homfray

            And did nothing with the power you had even though the Tories were unelectable and you vouch have done so much.

            Blair s legacy? Iraq. Sums him up. A failure and a liar.

          • Olly

            And a winner of three elections. Three. All big wins.

            Whereas Ed is about to turn the Foot/Kinnock pairing into a nice triumvirate of Labour Losers – Foot, Kinnock and Miliband. It has a ring to it, don’t you think?

          • Mike Homfray

            You don’t get it. You win rlections to do things. The Blair years have permanently removed a load of voters without replacing them. They were a failure.

      • Robin Banks

        Olly I said nothing about Ed The Top priority is a Labour Government if we sell out the poor when we could have won will be the biggest betrayal.

      • Mike Homfray

        No. He is absolutely right on foreign policy. Support for Palestine and no more mistaken liberal intervention

        • Olly

          He’s craven and sneaky on foreign policy.

          • reformist lickspittle

            Translation:

            “he doesn’t want endless war to please vast corporations”

            🙂

          • Olly

            Isn’t that one of Russell Brand’s lines?

          • Dave Postles

            Doesn’t make it any less pertinent, especially in the light of current events, and let’s not forget what is coming out about stopovers on Diego Garcia.

  • SpinningHugo

    It is true that they need to either put up or shut up.

    The better of those two alternatives is put up: take action.

    Persuade Cooper and Burnham to go to the leader and explain that he is now the barrier to achieving the good ends we all want to see, and that he must now go.

    • paul oxley

      The Cooper who would actually see Labour fall behind the Tories by several points if she were leader? If Ed were a plain.speaker he would tell her where to go with her “explanation”

      • reformist lickspittle

        Hugo thinks Cooper is ace, for some reason.

        But then again, he says the opinion of LOBBY JOURNALISTS matters!

    • reformist lickspittle

      Bad luck for you that Burnham apparently told the rebellion “leader” on Friday that he could go forth and multiply, then.

      Its not happening, and the plot leaders need to be named and shamed (which is already happening on social media, apparently)

    • Mike Homfray

      No. Would be disastrous and display us as disloyal and split

  • Matthew Blott

    I actually agree with the broad thrust of the editorial line here. I think Miliband is a shower but the spinelessness of the snipers is infuriating.

    • reformist lickspittle

      If even you are saying that, it must be true 😉

      Have to disagree with the assessment that the Observer story was “especially damaging” tbh – it was if anything the least substantial of the anti-Ed stories in today’s paper (an anonymous “rebellion leader” simply asserts that “20 MPs” – yes, it was downgraded from shadow ministers to just MPs – are ready to join this revolt, WITH NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER save for this unsourced claim) Any self-respecting professor of journalism would have given it an F.

  • Mike Green

    The big question is whether Ed has the right qualities to lead us (to a victory)?

    Let’s examine the issue of the extra 2 Billion euro’s payment. Cameron’s pitch at being a leader was to say that we weren’t going to pay…point of principle.

    That didn’t in fact last very long because George Osborne has now said that we are paying, pretty much a smoke and mirrors job in the claim that we are only paying half, however there is a delay in the payments and that’s laughably hailed as a great victory.

    What was our position? Anyone know? We were going to pay regardless.

    This is the bit that I don’t follow…

    We are having to pay more because our economy is doing better than forecast, and the reality of that is that the austerity measures eg Bedroom taxes for the poor, reducing benefits, etc etc are contributing to a statistic that says we are doing well as a country.

    Why didn’t our leader say that we were not going to pay it! We have terrible poverty in many areas of the country, that 2 Billion would help so many people down on their luck yet rather than being rebated primarily to Germany and France.

    Leadership….sad luck of it!

    • Dez

      ‘ Cameron’s pitch at being a leader was to say that we weren’t going to pay…point of principle.’

      Wrong,he said he wasn’t going to pay it on 1st December,at least try and get the basic facts right.

      • paul oxley

        A great victory..not paying on Dec 1st

        But..er still paying

        All hail the mighty Flashman and Gideon

      • Dave Postles

        Surely he originally said that the UK was not going to pay that much and not on the 1 December.

  • #webackEd

  • roncook

    I have some doubts that this is not media hype, I’m guessing it’s always easy to find a disgruntled backbencher or two in the tea rooms and that becomes the leadership battle. But yes if there is a problem with the leadership, lets get it out in the open, we have a bloody election to win!

  • Olly

    It’s a fair argument to make, and in common with the other centrists around here I’d rather the 20+ Shadow Ministers and MPs put up, loudly and clearly, and get on the record. That would be the honourable approach. I would add, though, that Put Up Or Shut Up as a principal would have more moral force in this particular case if Miliband himself hadn’t been one of the serial anonymous briefers against the PM in the Brown/Blair days…

    • reformist lickspittle

      Evidence that EM was “a serial anonymous briefer” against Blair, then?

      Of course, you don’t have any. The reality – as attested by many reliable sources (what a stark contrast to the Observer “splash” today – which you, so typically, cite utterly uncritically) – is that Miliband E was the Brown “aide” who Blair’s people felt most comfortable talking to and doing “deals” with.

      Sorry to let facts intervene again and all that 😉

      • Olly

        You’re getting all cross again. Calm down. It’s only an election we’re losing. Again.

        • reformist lickspittle

          “We”??

          You fool nobody, mate. Give it up.

          • Olly

            You think the party belongs to the hard Left? I don’t think so. The centrists will be clearing up the mess post-Ed and steering us back to a properly deserved election win in 2020. The centrists always have to clear up the mess that the Left of the party create.

          • David Lewis

            That is the case universally and internationally.

          • paul oxley

            Well done Olly .there is your support from
            a hard right Tory turned Kipper

            How very “centrist” you both are

          • David Lewis

            He is making a sensible statement whom no sensible person could disagree with so you accuse him of some outrageous political dishonesty.

            What does this tell us about you (which we did not already know)?

            In truth you are a figure of fun and you do yourself few favours if you wish to retain any credibility.

          • reformist lickspittle

            I see, Ed Miliband is “hard left” now. Oh dear 😉

            I have spent my entire political life opposing them, my formative years were spent dragging the Labour party back to sanity in the 1980s. That wasn’t so that neo-Blairite “cuckoos in the nest” could remove everything that makes us remotely “Labour”.

            Politics is about more than three groups of people with blue, red and yellow ties respectively – but virtually identical policies. I live in hope that you will one day realise that.

          • Mike Homfray

            If you have any sense at all you and the rest of the Progress maggots will start their own party. We have had enough of you

          • Olly

            Maggots eh? Nice touch. Classy. If this is what you’re like with six months to go I can’t wait to read you the day after Labour lose the election. It’s going to be hilarious.

    • Mike Homfray

      No. Not a centrist..A TORY. You don’t belong in Labour.

      • Olly

        Well it’s lucky for me that you’re not in charge 🙂

        • Mike Homfray

          Really don’t know why you and the maggots don’t go and form your own centre party. But of course if we lose next time because of you lot the unions will pull their support. Hope Sainsbury is prepared to spend his whole fortune on you. It didn’t work in our seat where the Progress candidate got 11 votes

  • swatnan

    I won’t be signing, because it won’t make any difference.
    What would make a difference is for the Shadow Cabinet and all those MPs who feel its time for Ed to go to sign, and someone to put up, just to move things along.

  • Lee Harris

    Will the last member please put out the lights after the election.

    • reformist lickspittle

      Wow, what an intelligent comment.

      You clearly have much to contribute here 🙂

  • paul oxley

    While Cowards flinch and Traitors sneer

    Lets keep the Red Flag Flying here

    #we back Ed

    • David Lewis

      Yep – you do that if it keeps you happy, but goodness knows why, or how, come to that.

      • Michael Murray

        I’ll tell you why. Because the Tory Right and their lickspittles in the media want to torpedo Labour’s plans to abolish the Bedroom Tax; stop the NHS privatisation; introduce the Mansion Tax; increase taxes on the wealthy to 50 pence; abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an all elected second chamber; freeze energy prices; and keep Britain in the European Union. All highly popular policies. But what frightens the Right and their media lackeys witless is Ed Miliband’s call for the full implementation of Leveson. That’s why they are desperate to replace an excellent, principled, strong Labour leader with a Ramsay MacDonald puppet of the Right.

        • David Lewis

          Tax increases are never popular with the electorate which is why left wing parties have always lost in the UK for more than forty years as they are about to do once more.

          The bedroom tax is not a tax. It is an encouragement for tenants of government owned properties to let out rooms to those ho need them. What is wrong with that?

          The mansion tax will never happen because everyone knows it is unenforceable but it is a good wheeze to placate the loonies.

          The NHS has always been privatised. Where do you think all the raw materials come from. this is just a silly slogan which fools no-one.

          The days of public ownership have long past as have the days of Labour.

        • Doug Smith

          “Miliband’s call for the full implementation of Leveson.”

          They certainly don’t like it up ’em.

          The Blairites and the Establishment have turned against Miliband.

          And of course the Blairites won’t break cover and present their own candidate – they want Labour and Miliband to lose in 2015 so the can pin the failure on not enough hard-right policies.

          We should expect the undermining to continue right up until election day.

          • David Lewis

            But how long is it since the British electorate voted in a leftist government? 45 years? Is this going to change now? Of course not. The world has moved on but the loony left as usual has not.

          • Doug Smith

            Miliband isn’t a leftist. Miliband is a centrist.

          • David Lewis

            No he decidedly is not. He is an old fashioned left wing socialist just like his dreadful father, the stories about whose hypocrisy are legion.

          • Doug Smith

            You’ve never forgiven Miliband for contrasting predator capitalists with producers.

            And you must have been spitting feathers when Miliband dared suggest an energy price freeze.

            Better not remind you of the cataclysmic, de-regulated free market failure of 2008 – lol.

          • David Lewis

            I don’t’ think you have any clue what you are talking about. You have uttered three tired slogans with little meaning.

            The `energy price freeze’ was viewed with complete cynicism by the electorate who knew that the producers would increase prices immediately which is what they did.

            See if you can explain the last sentence of yours and be prepared, because I understand the subject very well indeed.

          • Doug Smith

            Last sentence explained: cataclysmic, de-regulated free market failure of 2008.

            Simples.

          • David Lewis

            Not simples at all.

            Explain what you mean by what you said rather than repeating the words.

            I suspect you have no idea and I suspect I know exactly what you will say.

          • Doug Smith

            I don’t have the time to write you an essay explaining this.

            You’re obviously short on knowledge relating to the matter we’re discussing so I suggest you google the following:

            de-regulated free market failure of 2008.

            Do that and you’ll find all the explanation you need, from the journalistic to the academic.

          • David Lewis

            So what was exactly caused by your `deregulated free-market failure of 2008′ whatever that may mean, and how?

            Don’t use meaningless corruptions of slogans unless you understand their meaning and can back them up.

          • What he means? Simple really. Who was in Office, who designed the rules, who designed the supervisory bodies.

            Come on, don’t be shy, who was it.

          • Ross

            That’s good. Perhaps you could venture an opinion on the sanity of a financial system in which the vast majority of money exists as bank credit issued by private banks with little meaningful regulation over its expansion.

          • Danny

            “The `energy price freeze’ was viewed with complete cynicism by the electorate”

            You lack perspective to such an extent that your posts are meaningless drivel. A Comres poll suggested 80% of people supported the energy prize freeze. 80%. Four in five.

            “See if you can explain the last sentence of yours and be prepared, because I understand the subject very well indeed.”

            I know we enjoy a little bit of what is normally good-natured banter on this website, but I genuinely have never ever seen such mis-placed arrogance from anyone. To claim you understand any subject very well and then post the complete, utter and total nonsense that nearly all your posts are is hilarious.

            Your whole debating style relies on making sweeping statements that have no basis in fact, other than that you think they are correct. Just a few examples:-

            No one supports renationalisation. Arguments in favour? David Lewis doesn’t support renationalisation. Arguments against? Reams of polling data.

            All lefties work in the public sector. Arguments in favour? David Lewis thinks so. Arguments against? Literally millions of examples to the contrary.

            The electorate viewed the energy price freeze with cynicism. Arguments in favour? David Lewis viewed the price freeze with cynicism. Arguments against? Extensive polling data.

            David Lewis understands free market and regulation very well indeed. Arguments in favour? David Lewis thinks he understands the free market and regulation very well indeed. Arguments against? Take a look at pretty much any of his LabourList posts pertaining to the economy.

            The thing is, you actually think you’re clever don’t you?!

            I’m still convinced that one day you’re going to turn around a reveal that this whole David Lewis thing is an alias and that you are actually Dennis Skinner on a mission to make right-wingers look like complete, blathering imbeciles. It’s a more realistic scenario than someone being as stupid as you are on here. If that is you Dennis and you are trying to make right-wingers look like ignorant, unpleasant foolish people, you’re doing a cracking job. If it isn’t you, then John Stuart Mill was bang on the money;

            “Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.”

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Nobody has been more anti-Miliband on here than you.

          • Doug Smith

            My criticism is always focused on policy.

            If you think a lurch to the Right is going to improve Labour’s already favourable prospects then you must living in cloud cuckoo land.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            You’re the bloke who recommended we vote UKIP – that was on policy grounds, was it?

          • leslie48

            Troll on site ; not worth bothering.

          • Dave Postles

            Agreed.

          • David Lewis

            Then why did you? I can back it up. Can you?

          • leslie48

            Freezing child benefit and keeping the mad right wing imitator Balls on and not supporting pay increases for several million public servants.

          • Ross

            The fact that you think Miliband is a socialist shows the extent to which the neoliberal movement has had it all its own way for far too long.

          • Mate you have no idea what left wing Labour is. Miliband is centre, bordering on centre-right compared to 30-40 years ago.

            Left wing Labour was Red Ken in the late 70’s/early 80’s. Sheffield, Militant, the miners and steelworkers, Derek Hatton.

            When Labour was Labour and it didn’t want to reform the establishment – it wanted to destroy it. When it was proper. When it was real and when it was what it is supposed to be – the political wing of the trades union movement.

          • David Lewis

            Thanks. Good to see those days gone eh?

          • No it’s npot actually. Labour has become a middleclass middle England party and as a result it’s core vote are quite rightly walking away from it in droves. It is no longer the party of labour – it is the party of graduates with a southern accent and a mortgage. It is dying and the sooner it goes toes up the better.

          • Waldorf

            If Miliband is too “leftist” for the electorate, how come they want more radical policies than Labour’s when it comes to (for example) railway re-nationalisation?

          • David Lewis

            That is a loony delusion based upon the slanted question. Look it up.

            Nobody in the UK apart from the loonies wants renationalisation and it is never going to happen anyway.

          • Ross

            That’s not what the polling data says. Also, why the double standard? I don’t recall the initial privatisation being subject to the whim of public opinion.

          • Mukkinese

            How long is it since they voted in a rightwing government? 19 years.

            The Tories did not win don’t forget and they hardly have massive support this time either…

          • David Lewis

            Very true in both cases.

          • Ross

            Just out of curiosity, who would the Blairite candidate be? They seem pretty thin on the ground these days.

          • Doug Smith

            Johnson has been mentioned.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            ‘The Blairites and the Establishment have turned against Miliband’.

            Presumably you would agree with them on that score- being Anti-Miliband I mean.

        • gunnerbear

          This is purely based on people I know, but they don’t trust that a Labour HMG will limit the ‘Mansion Tax’ to just mansions – they see it as a way to revalue CT bands by the back door because they think it won’t be long before HMG (of any colour) says, “Da ya know what…this Mansion Tax thing…the band seems to start quite high….why not make the starting point £330,000…..you know to make it so that Councils in the North can get some cash out of it too…..”

          • Dave Postles

            They should be have higher Council Tax bands by the front door. Band H is absurd.

          • gunnerbear

            Fair comment.

    • leslie48

      But the Titanic sank with flags, trumpets and people saying it would never sink. Politics is about the art of the possible – not an ideological crusade ( like under Benn and Foot) that may deliver a far right coalition till 2020. Get a grip, grow up you owe it to our voters.

  • Theoderic Braun

    If I was Miliband I think I would actually resign and initiate a “back me or sack me” leadership contest (similar to what John Major did in June 1995) to once and forever end conspiracy and speculation in respect to his leadership once and for all. Everyone would then know who was willing to stand against him, which people were in the camps of the individuals standing, and who was and remained loyal to the current leader. Miliband might possibly end up being replaced by a real dud, e.g., Yvette Cooper, who would go on to lose the election but if he won this bold step would silence his critics and stop sniping by would be assassins permanently.

  • Paul Adams

    If Ed is so bad, why are the rightwing media (which now includes the BBC) so desperate to get rid of him?

    It’s because they are terrified he is going to win, if winning is defined as leading the largest party at Westminster, (helped by the boundaries, rise of UKIP blah blah blah, but a win nevertheless).

    The prospect of the most left wing PM since Attlee and the first PM since Murdoch first seeped out of a sewer in the late 60s who is prepared to stand up to him – it must not be allowed to happen!

    • PATRICKNEWMAN

      Those in the shadow cabinet who think Miliband should go should have the courage of their convictions and resign. They cannot continue to brief against him and remain as a front bench spokesperson for an administration in waiting with Miliband as PM designate.

      • Dave Postles

        Pure arrogance and cowardice on their part too. They should all be in pantomime this Christmas. I believe Wicked Productions is doing The Wizard of Oz this year.

      • Mukkinese

        We actually do not know if anyone in the shadow cabinet is involved. All we have is hearsay from those too frit to show their own faces.

        Hardly convincing evidence of a substantial revolt, just more typical cowardly politicking by pathetic malcontents with no balls…

        • leslie48

          The Observer is a reliable and trusted newspaper and we would want, expect and agree their should be a panic with this degree of unpopularity.

          • Dave Postles

            It really isn’t. It’s unremittingly LibDem – and no doubt some of this coverage has some intention to rehabilitate the LibDems and Clegg.

          • leslie48

            Totally reject that Dave. I am a great reader of the Observer and its the most informed & intelligent radical paper we have and it remains on focus about the inequities of current Tory Britain.

          • Dave Postles

            I read The Guardian every day and The Observer every weekend – as well as the The Independent every day and The Sunday Independent. I also read The Morning Star so that we have a truly radical newspaper – I buy it daily and also support it with a monthly direct debit for its continuation. I stand by my comment about The Guardian and The Observer.

          • mactheanti

            I concur 100% about the Guardian/Observer. The piece that cause the furore last Sunday was a piece written by Daniel Boffey a former Mail on Sunday hack.

          • Wolves_Phil

            It might surprise you then that that Observer article was written by a journalist Daniel Boffey who used to write smear stories against Labour for the Daily Mail up to 2010. Are you still so trusting of what he writes? (If you disbelieve me check out Tom Pride’s “Pride’s Purge” site)

        • ToffeeCrisp

          I’m quite sure Balls is involved.

          • mactheanti

            Really? don’t tell me you have an ‘unnamed source’.

          • ToffeeCrisp

            Ah, so you’ve also heard of Mr Ed Unnamed Source Balls, as he’s known these days…

      • leslie48

        They can express what the electorate are saying ; this is serious stuff the polling figures on leadership does not lie and it looks like the Cameron / Osborne duo till 2020.

        • Dave Postles

          Let’s wait for a verdict on Osborne until after the unravelling of this latest dissimulation on the EU contribution.

          • leslie48

            Will not change much for most voters in our core or marginal seats.

          • Dave Postles

            Let’s wait for a verdict.

          • leslie48

            But what’s that got to do with the negative YouGov etc data – we are in a new age where Media capability is all ( unfortunately). Moreover and i see it at work with intelligent people – they do not want him. I am sorry but this is politics which involves voting for candidates.

          • Dave Postles

            My comment here is about Osborne.

          • leslie48

            I am making the point that the Osborne point will unlikely change the sort of voters we are losing among our working class voters etc.,

          • Dave Postles

            I know two sorts of working-class voters, although my circle is probably limited: (i) my family – since the 1970s, none of them has voted Labour, despite being from unskilled working-class background; (ii) the union members with whom I have marched in London three times since 2010; their perception is not that Miliband, despite his dilution of union influence, is incompetent to lead Labour, but that the party’s policies are pusillanimous – with which I agree. I am circumspect that unions will continue to fund Labour if Miliband is displaced. I perceive this not only from marching with them and listening to the speeches, but also from receiving Unite tweets. Without the unions, there will be no Labour Party.
            The perception about leadership is to some extent dominated by the perceived competence on the economy – Osborne is slipping rapidly as a charlatan.
            Personally, I am Labour-minded, but not prepared to vote for or support the party.

          • Without the unions, there will be no Labour Party.

            something the pointless professional apparatchiks that run the Labour party should be minded to remember. The unions can always fund others (SNP, Plaid etc) – or even found and fund a new party.

      • hey can if they get paid more. Their own greed comes first in their world – not honour.

    • leslie48

      Look if anyone in the labour party says the BBC has ‘a right wing bias’ why then are the press/media , PR and Strategy people which are employed by our party not challenging the Corporation on their need to follow impartiality. Its often an unconscious bias I fear where the BBC takes the 80% Tory press and repeats their headlines and their Tory agenda. Years ago the BBC were separate in their analysis of politics now their dumb heads pick up the hate Mail, Express, murdoch Times and setting Sun . They may deny but OK let’s get researchers monitoring the BBC content. If its that bad lets have a class action the people vs the BBC.

      • Michael Murray

        Yes, The journalists at the BBC resemble the prosecutors at a Stalinist show trial. They arraign Ed Miliband on trumped up evidence attributed to faceless, anonymous sources that can never be objectively verified.

        • leslie48

          Except today the Observer has moved us into new territory with reported real concerns about the electability of the party.

          • Dave Postles

            The Observer – the bastion of LibDemism – diversion from LibDem decline and Clegg. This is the paper that hardly mentioned that the Greens had equalled and superseded the LibDems in polls.

          • Pam_Smith

            What are their names? The story seems to be that one unidentified source claims that other unidentified people are about to do something. And this is what passes for “news” in the Grauniad/Observer nowadays? Beats employing journalists who can actually chase up a story with facts in it.

      • Paul Adams

        While we’re on the subject, can anyone tell me why the BBC still persist in “reviewing the papers”? It’s relentless right-wing garbage, usually analysed by other right-wing hacks – at the very least they should be forced to review left wing publications – although off the top of my head I can only think of the Morning Star!

        • leslie48

          The mirror, guardian, the I, Independent and often inside articles in the FT- none of these are highly Tory.

      • The BBC is institutionally middle class faux left wing.

  • AdH2011

    As an undecided voter right now, I’m finding the Labour Party in general very frustrating – there just doesn’t seem to be any underlying vision at all or if there is, it isn’t being presented properly.

    To the non-tribal, merely not being Tories isn’t good enough and neither are token gesture populist policies – Miliband needs to start leading and give people a reason to vote for him and his party else what is happening in Scotland, will happen in the rest of the UK too.

    • Robin Banks

      wE ARE SURROUNDED WITH IDIOTS!!

  • Last one on the Left.

    The Put Up: Yvette Cooper.
    People actually listen when she speaks, and not just labour supporters but the masses that labour desperately need to vote for them.
    She’s attacked this gov time and again over their half baked reforms, she’s proven Her metal more than miliband ever has. I’m sure LP staff feel if they can push members repeat the mantra ‘miliband is leader’ enough they will start believing it, 4 years down the line and many are still not brainwashed into believing in him.
    Nearly 115 years since The Labour Party was founded, I for one think it’s past due for a strong female leader. Maybe this is what’s needed to drag the party kicking and sulking into the 21st century, to finally get us reconnecting with voters.

    • David Lewis

      she has a voice like fingernail scratching a blackboard. She is humourless and sneering.

      Please make her leader

  • Sunny Jim

    Why didn’t they wield the knife last year? He isn’t a great leader and won’t make a particularly effective PM either imo but we are where we are.

    If the plotters would shut their mouths and rally round then the polling is showing a win next May.

    Then get rid of Ed.

    • Doug Smith

      A win next year with Ed as PM is what they fear most.

  • David Lewis

    Labour is not going to lose just because they have such a terrible leader. They are also going to lose because they still don’t understand that you cannot sell tax increases to the electorate.

    The Conservatives are selling tax reductions.

    Who trumps whom?

    Who is going to lose?

  • paul oxley

    Anti Ed people..Jason Cowley, Damian Mcbride, Andrew Mckinlay, Simon Danczuk, Ian Austin, Nick Watt, Dan Hodges

    Pro Ed people…Andy Burnham, Neil Kinnock, John Prescott, Ken Livingstone, Diane Abbott,Harriet Harman, Bonnie Greer, John Mcdonnell, Michael Meacher, Dennis Skinner, Caroline Flint, Hilary Benn

    Talk about pygmies v giants..Whose side are you on boys

    • David Lewis

      Yes indeed. Well put. Pygmies v Giants!

  • Sylvia

    I’m beginning to think this is a story made up by the various journos or why don’t they name these anonymous people who they say have said this or that.
    OR, more likely, it is a story put out by the Tories ‘cos they are so scared we will win & WE WILL WIN.

  • Mukkinese

    These anonymous whisperers are cowards that need to be exposed.

    We need to tell their constituents what kind of traitorous and pathetic people are representing their interests.

    As the article says, we could have had some respect for these “rebels” if they had at least stood up openly and criticised, but this weasley conniving from the shadows only makes them look like the cowards that they are.

    Put up or shut up…

    • barry

      Mukkinese – if you think that constituents are going to condemn MPs who want to unseat Ed Miliband you’re in a dream world. Polls show that the majority of Labour voters think EM is doing a bad job. Any MP who wants to remove our leader would be regarded as a hero. I think your wish that EM’s critics unmask themselves is likely to come true if past experience is anything to go by. Gordon Brown’s critics began under cover; they soon stepped forward “in the flesh.”

      • leslie48

        As Barry says its the majority of Labour voters not the other parties whom we know will agree.

  • Susie Gilbert

    I am equally appalled by the anonymous whispering and the Guardian gossip. It is time for everyone to rally at the doorstep where May 2015 is going to be won and these distractions are undermining the work of those of us who are actually campaigning.

    • ButcombeMan

      The problem Labour have in rallying at the doorstep, is that Milliband and Balls are BOTH unsellable on the doorsteps of all but the most dedicated, die hard Labour voter.
      The election was Millibands to lose, he is doing it. A fine job.
      All the parties need to come to terms with the fact that voters they long believed they owned are thinking more and are disenchanted for a whole fistful of disparate reasons.
      Labour can never recover from Blair and Iraq, Labour is struggling to recover even a morsel of a reputation for financial competency after Brown and uncontrolled immigration is rightly or wrongly blamed on Labour.
      People of all previous political persuasions are saying to both main parties, a plague on all your houses.
      Milliband is not the personality to remedy that and get those previously owned voters back.
      The 35 per cent strategy is unravelling before our eyes.

    • Dan

      Although I don’t want Ed to be overthrown, the “stop complaining and get campaigning” mantra really has to stop. There’s NOTHING to campaign with on doorsteps at the moment, there are no distinctive policies or message to sell to people. That needs to be sorted out first.

  • Ross

    This non-crisis has been stoked by treacherous turds like Dan Hodges, who are seeking to misdirect from the real leadership crisis, Cameron’s. Losing one MP in an ultra safe seat to a small party is bad, losing two should be enough to guarantee he gets knifed in the back by his own party.

    • David Lewis

      Yes this is true but the point is that Cameron can win, at pinch but Miliband can’t.

    • leslie48

      ‘non-crisis’ you must be joking for the first time UK polling (average of all polls) reports a Hung parliament with Labour short of MPs to be the ruling party. The unpopularity will go on growing as media push and push the Miliband effect. sorry it’s all up. The people have spoken – the bastards. who said that.

      • Dave Postles

        Capitulation to the media – so decent people have to be discarded. There’s the crisis – a crisis of democracy.

        • leslie48

          I said the people and polling data; politics is about the art of the possible not an ideological crusade ( we who lived through Foot and Kinnock) Your Labours voters are needed in Essex and Rotherham not just pleasant university towns like York, Exeter or Oxford.

          • Dave Postles

            ‘The unpopularity will go on growing as media push and push the Miliband effect. sorry it’s all up.’
            I reached the age of majority (then 21) to vote in 1970. I’ve lived in Leicester, Rochdale, Bolsover, and now Rushcliffe (although I take more interest in Loughborough). I’ve worked in Leicester and Sheffield. My background is (so-called ‘unskilled’) working-class from Northfields Council Estate in Leicester.

      • Ross

        It won’t mean a thing when stacked against the very real possibility of the deficit being higher by the general election than when Osborne inherited it. This despite a raft of cutbacks to public services; it’s going to be a hard sell.

  • alexaas13

    Policies without vision is ineffective. We have SOME policies , now they need to be reiterate. No sitting on hands no apologies just the vision thing. We’re out there waiting – activate, activate,activate.

    • Dave Postles

      The problem for MIliband is that whenever he attempts to make a coherent policy, he is dragged back by the right, so that he can only make intermittent single options on particular issues – well, that seems to me to be the case.

      • Dan

        Exactly. Ed Balls and the New Labour dinosaurs are actively PREVENTING any vision, because they think interesting policies will cause too much controversy and make people scared of how “dangerous” Labour are. They have to realise that, even if being “left-wing” and interesting might risk scaring some people, it’s necessary because the alternative of not saying anything interesting at all means you don’t make any impression (either positive or negative) on people at all.

        • leslie48

          Absolutely like freezing children’s benefits if Lab. retook power.

  • Dez

    Has any spin doctor had such an impact as Lucy Powell?

  • BillFrancisOConnor

    I support the right of Progress to work within our party. I also support the right of Progress to organise within our party. But I am completely opposed to any attempt by Progress or others to supplant the elected leader of our party.

    I am becoming increasingly concerned about the activities of Progress. Like every other party member they must abide the rules and if they want to change the rules they must seek to bring about that change within the established democratic framework.

    • leslie48

      It’s got nothing to do with Progress – its the polls man. There telling us its all up now just a hung parliament. With 6 months to go Ed cannot retrieve that many voters like it or not ( and I do not) elections have become presidential.

  • Jarrod

    The language of “cowardice” is the language of bullying.

    If you want to remove a dangerously ineffective leader, in an attempt to win an election, it may well be the most effective and rational way to do it in private. It may also be best for the party rather than an all out long-drawn out bloodbath.

    Perhaps instead of the “the media hate Ed cos he’s too left wing” conspiracy theories, we may choose Occam’s Razor: the media slate him because he’s so bad.

    • Dave Postles

      They are not doing it in private. They sneaked to the BBC and now they are rabbiting to other outlets. It’s not intimidation to ask people who are making allegations to come forward and identify themselves. It is cowardly to hide behind anonymity.

  • Ms Mary Lloyd

    I read in another post today that the journalist the Observer employed to write this piece used regularly to attack Labour in his articles for the Daily Mail.

  • It’s fast becoming a toss-up as to which red will be sacked first – Ed Miliband or Brendan Rodgers.

    • Jimmy Sands

      A little unfair. Rodgers had one good season.

  • Jack

    People should not forget that Ed Miliband did not support the illegal invasion of Iraq when the alternative candidates to his leadership and the right wing media sniping at him now did do. Also, if it wasn’t for Ed Miliband voting against Cameron’s intention to support Obama’s wish to bomb Syria, we could very well be involved in a major war, possibly a world war. When it came to making a judgement of immense importance Ed got it right. The whole country and most of all Cameron, owes Ed Miliband a tremendous debt of gratitude.

    Those of us who take a keen interest in politics often forget that the majority of people have little or no deep interest; they are too busy trying to make ends meet. They just want to see a Government implement policies that give them a fair chance.

    Just as the Tories, because of their past tactic of wheeling out the immigration card before elections, have prepared the ground for UKIP, who have now stolen that ground and are running with it, the banks and energy companies, by their deceitful and often illegal behaviour have given Labour a tremendous gift, if only Ed would recognise and fully capitalise on it. Rather than worry about the constant sniping by the right wing press and the Blairites in the Party, he should concentrate on introducing a couple of major and easily understood policies which the majority of people will go for. Without doubt, those two policies should be a People’s Bank and a People’s Energy Company, where charges will not be a rip off and any profits will be put back into the NHS etc., for the benefit of everyone.

    In addition, Ed should point out that the Tories are in full support of the TTIP proposals being considered by the EU. How many people know that our current Government actually supports the TTIP clauses which will allow foreign corporations to sue it if they introduce measures that limit their profits, how crazy is that? It seems to go against all logic. Not however if you look a little further. This is proof, if any were needed, that the Tories fully intend to continue privatising the NHS. The TTIP agreement if implemented will be a godsend for them; it will allow them to blame it for binding their hands when giving out healthcare contracts to private companies. Likewise it will give them the excuse to sell off even more of our national assets to their business friends, assets that we the people have built up and paid for.

    A week is a long time in politics, Ed has got six months to save us from the Tories and he can do it easily, with true Labour policies.

  • Grouchy Oldgit

    6 months from an election all attention should be focused on defeating the real enemies, Tories and UKIP. These critics must have a death wish. Those old enough to remember the early 80s know voters don’t back disunited parties. Miliband ain’t great, but he is the best chance of preventing 5 more yrs of Dave and hell knows what more Tory damage.

  • Jeremy_Preece

    The fact that Ed M polls below the level that Labour polls is nothing new. There is nothing new at all in terms of the way that Ed comes over or that the press is willing to portray him, or how he seems to be perceived by the public.
    There was a window of opportunity for replacing him and that window closed about a year ago.
    This is not the time to change leader. The Labour Party of Australia know only too well about the risks of changing leaders in the run up to an election.
    If there is to be a leadership change then there needs to be a clear front runner who we know would do better, and then there needs to be a rapid and decisive changeover. At this point in time neither of these conditions are met.
    However the very worst of all worlds is this whispering behind hands.
    Therefore, as Mark says, put up or shut up.
    A lot of people on this site and on this page are doing exactly what we all need to do at this stage, and that is to fall in behind the leader and start fighting the Tories and UKIP.

  • monty61

    You seriously think that Ed is the right leader of the Labour Party? Seriously? Have you no idea how badly he is playing out there among real people. The party in Scotland is on its knees (and without those 41 MPs, what chance of a Milliband goverment?).

    Labour have a real chance at getting back into power, but Ed-nice-but-dim is holding the party back. It’s a slow motion train wreck. Anyone can see this, surely?

  • Boldee

    I think what should be more concerning for the party is that people simply don’t want to vote for them, whether Miliband is the leader or not is besides the point. I certainly wont be voting Labour next year having done so my entire life, as with many of my friends who used to vote Labour I will be voting Green as they actually have left wing values which is something the Labour Party abandoned a long time ago in favor of a populist vote and in doing so became part of the neoliberal agenda to which many are opposed, LAB/LIB/CON/UKIP are all different shades of the same thing in many peoples eyes.

    I know full well a good number of you will lambaste me for stating what I have but you only need to look at social media to see what people really think, we may well end up with a CON/UKIP coalition government next year with an increase in the number of votes for alternative parties, people have had enough and are going to vote with principles and not with the intention of just keeping the Torys out that’s if they even bother to vote at all, disillusionment has been the winner for a long time now.

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