What David Miliband’s intervention really means

February 2, 2012 12:22 pm

Those of us who have suggested David Miliband’s latest political intervention may have – let’s say – ulterior motives have received a bit of flak. Must he stay silent just because any public pronouncement may be misconstrued by the media? Why can’t he contribute to the debate about the party’s future like anyone else?

The problem with this position is that there is the tricky issue of precedent. Back in 2008, David Miliband wrote a similarly ambiguous, cryptic article that was widely interpreted as making a pitch for Gordon Brown’s job. Oh no, it was claimed, he was just adding to the debate about the party’s future. We now know that wasn’t true; from Alistair Darling’s memoirs and other sources we know he was on manoeuvres, but never quite had the bottle to take the final step.

I struggle to see why, therefore, it is so extraordinary to imagine his latest piece should not be seen in a similar light. David Miliband is an exceptionally bright and capable politician with years of front-line experience: he is certainly aware of how this piece would have been received in what was otherwise his brother’s most successful week as Labour leader.

Superficially, the piece is a polemical response to Roy Hattersley. Is David Miliband really re-emerging from the shadows with his biggest political statement since the leadership contest – to take on someone who stepped down as deputy leader of the Labour party two decades ago? Does anyone seriously believe this?

The piece is written in David Miliband’s trademark wonkish style which should give pause to those who believe he would have made a more effective communicator. But in it, he makes a factionalist attack on a constructed grouping he calls ‘Reassurance Labour’. Again, would he really bother aiming fire at this alleged tendency if he didn’t believe it was exerting a powerful influence over the party’s direction?

Essentially, it is a catch-all term embracing those believed to be committed to old-style statist social democracy, or what he calls the “political dead-end of the ‘Big State’”.

Given he’s brought it up again, it’s interesting to note how criticism of supposed statism emerged in Britain. It was barely heard of before the financial crisis, when unions and activists were angrily attacking the creeping privatisation and marketisation of public services under New Labour.

What happened was after Lehman Brothers went under is that the Tories turned a crisis of the market into a crisis of public services. The deficit soared here – as elsewhere – above all because of bank bailouts, tax revenues collapsing in the aftermath of financial meltdown, and soaring spending on welfare because of rising unemployment. The Tories – who had backed Labour’s spending plans pound for pound until the end of 2008 – cynically spun the deficit as the consequence of Labour “overspending”, or big government if you will. Labour failed to effectively challenged this myth and, with the help of allies in the media, the Tories constructed a consensus.

Debates have since raged about how to effectively reduce the state, to move on from a fictional New Labour “statist” approach, and to focus on concepts of community instead; Blue Labour is one prominent example. Would David Miliband and others be making these points about the dangers of statism if it wasn’t for how the Tories had framed the terms of debate? I doubt it.

He argues that, with social democracy, “Growing the pie and distributing it more fairly should be mutually reinforcing.” Agreed – which is why Labour needs a coherent alternative to Tory cuts which, after all, has sucked growth out of the economy. That’s why a strategy for growth – not cuts – should be our priority. Miliband argues the party has been united over “arguing that the Tories’ austerity plan is economically dangerous”, so it would be interesting to know how far he feels a softer austerity should go under Labour.

He argues “we need to continue to modernise the party itself”. He doesn’t mention the unions here (or anywhere in the article – which itself speaks volumes), but this is often New Labour code for breaking the union link. He certainly wants to bring in primaries, opening the door to a US system with expensive contests manipulated by wealthy donors; and undermining a democratic membership party in favour of an amorphous mass of largely passive supporters. In the US, voters in primaries are even more socially unrepresentative than those in normal election contests.

He talks of needing to “establish far more clearly what needs to be defended about Labour’s record in government, not just join the blanket Tory denigration”. Perhaps he shares the bemusement of those who – like myself – were staunch critics of New Labour, and now find ourselves fighting a lonely battle about the myth of Labour’s “overspending” causing the deficit. It is a battle that all too many senior Labour figures are unwilling to fight. But he really appears to be echoing the Blairite mantra that Ed Miliband has rubbished too much of New Labour’s record – “we should also insist that the list of gains far outstripped the mistakes”.

He quite rightly refers to the 2010 defeat as “disastrous, Labour’s second-worst in 70 years”. And it is – I’m sure we all agree – important to properly understand why Labour lost, and which supporters abandoned it. Labour lost 5 million votes between 1997 and 2010, but the Tories only gained a million in the same time. Over 80% of those voters disappeared under Tony Blair’s leadership – that is, by 2005, when Labour formed a government with just 35% of the vote, the lowest share of any successful party in the history of British democracy. The old New Labour triangulation strategy was that the so-called “core vote” had nowhere else to go, but relatively affluent swing voters were key to electoral success. But while Labour lost just 5 points of support from the ABs – the professional middle-classes – between 1997 and 2010, it haemorrhaged 21 points from its C2s (skilled and semi-skilled workers), and 19 points from the DEs at the bottom.

In other words, the old New Labour formula lost the party millions of working-class votes. “The core vote became the swing vote”, as Ed Miliband put it during the Labour leadership contest. It is not a point that David Miliband addresses.

He ends the article by attacking what he calls the “Reassurance Labour tendency”, not just for minimising the chances of electoral success, but because “its vision is too narrow, its mechanisms too one-dimensional, and its effectiveness too limited.”

But who – other than some bloke sitting in the House of Lords who left front-line Labour politics two decades ago – does he mean by this “Reassurance Labour tendency”? Who are its leading figures? Because – again – why would David Miliband break his silence with his most high-profile political intervention yet to aim fire at it if it was not a pretty powerful bunch?

This is – in reality – a proxy attack, not a serious polemical response to Roy Hattersley. It would take impressive powers of self-delusion or naivety to believe otherwise.

David Miliband identifies the division in the party as between modernisers like himself, and the ‘Reassurance Tendency’. But I see the division as a bit different: between those who want a coherent alternative to the Tory cuts agenda, and those who accept the essentials of what the Tories are doing and only quibble with the details. I call the latter the “Surrender Tendency”.

And before I’m accused of factionalism, I’m only talking in the same terms as David Miliband.

The original version of this article was wrongly attributed to Mark Ferguson, rather than Owen Jones. Apologies for any confusion caused.

  • Johndclare

    I notice that Owen Jones is claiming authorship of this piece!

    • http://www.labourlist.org/mark_ferguson Mark Ferguson

      A technical error on my behalf – it was of course written by Owen.

  • Sam James Gibson

    Thank God we got Ed!

  • Charles Wheeler

    Every sentence of Dave’s turgid prose represents a carapace of subtext – the political classes now speak in a highly coded language of their own, completely detached from the concerns of those they claim to speak for. Miliband is the exemplar of this tendency.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe it reflects the prevailing language and narrative of frontline politics Charles?

      Although it’s refreshing to hear not all succumb to this- and excellent communicators; I’m thinking of MP’s like D.Lammy, M.Hodges,
      and to some extent, Ed M himself.

      I do actually think David M has had some excellent ideas over time,
      but the abstract distant quality of his delivery of speaking I’m afraid
      really puts me off, much as I’ve tried to understand points made.

      I’m also no fan of the “Blairite” tendancy in recent years- in terms of
      tactics, assumptions and even downright arrogance in assuming some kind of superior position.(Not necessarily DM- but maybe elements of this.)
      And I was a supporter of NL in the early years- probably much like most
      in the party.But this was the only option anyway; now there is a chance for something more pluralist on centre left, not merely competing on right wing territory?

      We can only perceive what’s presented.

      Jo

  • Anonymous

    Much Ado About Nothing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheGreenBenches Eoin Clarke

    Thank the almighty God our father we got Ed Miliband.

  • Anonymous

    Agree entirely with your premise Owen.

    I do wonder if there is some sort of political manouvering happening
    behind the scenes amongst a group or “faction?”

    I just thought that David M had asked for end to the factionalism
    of the past- “Blair/Brown” era?
    But is this still continuing; is this just about power stuggles
    internally?

    I’ve spoken about my views elsewhere, but it does annoy me
    this appears so one sided and using very specific tactics-
    pretty unsubtle IMO.

    I have every sympathy for how difficult it may have been
    for David M losing his chance to be leader-
    but not everything in life is predicatble
    or guaranteed- and this is politics- which
    he must know full well.
    The leadership contest was open to all,
    and it’s a democratic process.

    He has the chance of making some brilliant
    and important contributions to the movement,
    and to work constructively with his brother
    and the whole party now and in the future.
    So why not do that- instead of making
    what appears to be underhand gestures
    and slick manouvres from the sidelines?
    These kind of actions could be damaging
    in the longer term and create further rifts
    and tensions?

    Why should the right of the party hold any more sway
    over Labour than its whole; is “New Lab”
    the only model and direction we have to draw upon?
    It’s a ready made recipe- but times and events
    have moved on much since then,
    and I think calls for something more expansive
    and fitting with the current climate;
    in the real public interest-
    not just the Westminster circles.

    Ultimately, I’d like to see all working together
    but dropping the ego’s; putting grudges to one side.

    J

    • http://twitter.com/tommilleruk Tom Miller

      Did anybody else read this comment as a poem?

      • Anonymous

        If you have trouble understanding other people’s writing, then just ask for clarification.If you disagree with my points, then just say so.
        I explained more succinctly on Mark’s article on same topic anyway.
        And your input is?

        • M Cannon

          I think that Mr Miller’s point was that, for some reason, your posts appear on line with shorter lines than the space available which gives, at least initially, an impression that they are poems.  I don’t think it’s a criticism of what you write.

          • Anonymous

            OK thanks Mark, if that is the case- may be the way I tend to edit; writing online is not the ideal medium and makes communication difficult.

            It’s just that I note Tom did not address comment to me, and it comes across more  as slightly taking the “P.”
            (If not, then apologies.)

            I’m aware that I probably writie too much in one go,
            but that reflects how I’m thinking.
            We all have our own style LOL!

            Cheers- and would like to know what your thoughts are on all this Mark?

            Jo

          • M Cannon

            I think that Mrs Miliband senior has had a difficult time since her sons stood against each other.

  • Daniel Speight

    I think Owen has got a bit closer to the reality than Mark did in  his article.

    • Anonymous

      I agree Daniel. I think it is obvious DM is still peeved he fell at the final hurdle, and this petulance leads to his windy rhetoric.

      Also,, of course as he will be picking up £50,000 per year for a few hours a month “working” for an investment company, I suppose he feels it important that he shows the City he knows which side his bread is buttered.

      In another article this morning Emma (correctly) said that Cameron is arrogant, but I have to say in the arrogance stakes, David Miliband leads the field.

      Whenever the Blairites rise out of their coffins, it is to fire a warning shot across the bows to those of us who would like to steer the ship slightly to the left. If David Miliband seriously believes his brother is steering in that direction – all I can say is it proves that DM like his hero Blair are so far to the right they are in the wrong party.

      I would say it is they who should leave the party: Liam Byrne, Caroline Flint and the Banana Miliband would all be far more at home with the Tories, then we would all know where we stand. What a pity the “Gang of Four” came alonmg 30 years too early for them. That is their tragedy.

      I think Owen is right to call them the Surrender Tendency: David Miliband is also the Cowardly Tendency: he cites Roy Hattersley, but like Owen I don’t think that is who he was really getting at.

      • Dave Postles

        ‘£50,000 per year for a few hours a month’
        I think you might find that that sum, like the similar amount for sitting on the board of Sunderland F.C., goes to ‘the Office of David Miliband’ from which he draws a salary – does that remind you of an arrangement by someone else and also the arrangement involved in the current dilemma of the head of the Student Loan Company? 

        • TomFairfax

          Is it me Dave, but whenever something comes up about the Senior Milliband, I seem to notice the mandatory kamikaze supporter or two appearing on the thread?

          Do you think some of them might work in some kind of special office working for some godlike creature with a banana?

          • Dave Postles

            Thomas F.  
            Who knows, Thomas? 
            Please keep us posted about the fortunes of Nissan and that major export industry, car manufacturing. 

          • Anonymous

            Agreed. Perhaps Lord Mandy and the Dear (ex) Leader are peeling the bananas for him?

            Seriously I can think of one poster here (no names except for those with long memories his/her namesake said some very naughty things about Liberace in 1956 – there’s a Round Britain Quiz question for you!), who has gone to extraordinary lengths to defend Lord Fyffe of South Shields

  • http://reactionarytimes.co.uk/ CreamOnTop

    How can you say he’s bright when he claims not to know Egypt and one assumes his friends in Tripoli tortured?

  • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

    David will never be leader of the L.P. He had his chance and, thanks to the realism of trade union members, failed. Because of his experience David is worth listening to but his failure to see the Iraq war as a mistake brings his judgement and sense of reality into question.

    Now that Ed is leader, its seems to me that David is operating in the shadows. But, interestingly, no one in Labour, of any prominence, has come up with any ‘serious alternatives’.

    Yet that must happen sooner or later.

    • Anonymous

      Perhaps not, but if Labour get back into power, he definitely will have to obtain one of the higher posts in the Government.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        No. I think he should look outside parliament for another job. he is history

        • Anonymous

          If Ed Balls has made it back into the Shadow Cabinet, then, I’m sure there is lots of room for David Miliband.  He has lots to offer…

          • Anonymous

            I suppose he would need “lots of room” to accomodate his ego?.He seems to have “a lot to offer” you, but frankly, damn all to many of us.

          • Anonymous

            I agree Cassandra about DM returning at some point- but I think Ed M has offered this all along?
            Maybe DM wants a position on different terms.

            But all the brouhaha over one article seems mad to me- completely overhyped and used for purposes?

            I’ve no idea what Davd’s intentions were- but it seems deliberately timed to undermine Ed’s recent success;
            also perhaps following in the footsteps of Peter M’s
            “intervention.”

            It’s almost becoming monotonous- and I think unneccessary tactics.

            Certainly some of the other articles over time from ex Blairite ministers had a very similar flavour.

            It reminds me of the expressions:
            raining on someone’s parade, and stealing another’s thunder….but why- if there’s every invitation to
            return to a key role?
            Maybe it’s just not enough.

            Jo

          • Anonymous

            I guess it depends on what you mean by success?  
            If he had written this article when Ed was struggling, then people would claim that he is trying to undermine him, or usurp his brother’s crown.
            It seems as though he can’t win either way…
            If David was trying to undermine Ed, then, I would agree that it is tedious and monotonous, as you said, and that it would be beneficial if he tried to act more constructively with his advice.
            Maybe, he is ready to take a key role; for the time being, that is all he can hope for or should want.

          • Dave Postles

            ‘The office of David Miliband’ has, IMHO, denuded him of any moral authority, whether or not other people engage in such arrangements.

          • Anonymous

            I feel ill denuding David milliband has created an image in my mind that won;t go away!

          • Anonymous

            It’s that banana again! :)

          • Anonymous

            Hi Cassandra; well, after that whole media storm over Xmas, which for some reason was a reaction by some to a blip in the poll ratings, following DC’s pulling out of EU treaty(?) and a slip of the keyboard on twitter; slightly poor performance at PMQ’s before Xmas etc- somehow gave opportunity for whole bandwagon to lay it on thick against him.

            Ed appeared to bounce back and take it on the chin, followed by a strong
            come back re policy announcements; taking a lead over issues like banker’s bonus and responsible capitalism;
            has now been accused of taking the party too far to the left!!

            It seems the “Blairite” camp are ready to pounce over the slightest detail.
            It surprises me that David would appear to engage in all this- if that is the case.

            Fair enough- it’s a serious article he’s written- but what are the implications in what he’s said, and why timed now, immediately after Peter M’s intervention about Ed’s “performance”and making such a big thing over Roy H for heaven’s sake?! It just looks like an excuse to me,
            to make a big splash.

            I’m taking it in context of all the other articles from ex Blairite ministers too over time- it’s becoming a familiar pattern of behaviour.

            I think there’s likely to be some truth in what most people have said here- but it’s all about perception too I guess.

            Thanks, Jo.

        • Anonymous

          Hi Mike, I think we need all talents and a diversity of views
          within the party, but the way the “Blairites” are conducting themselves is quite extraordinary at times.

          Always trying to upstage one another and seize the agenda
          in their own interests; seems quite undemocratic.
          Why do they assume such superiority- is it just too long in power perhaps that have ingrained this attitude?

          I couldn’t reference the NS article earlier- but eventually found.I’ve read a little of it- looks fascinating.
          But also highly academic.
          Will need to read more and think about over a few days.

          Then I saw D.Hodges’ article in the T’graph just now.
          When I’ve seen him speak as a commentator on TV
          I thought highly intelligent and interesting, even if didn’t agree with all.But his latest article appears to be almost hailing DM’s article as apocolyptic for the party?!!!

          What on earth the public at large make of all this
          talk of party politics within circles is a mystery.

          Where is the public discourse about the real issues
          out there; is there really a great interest in power struggles
          and the minutiae of internal politics?
          I think this constant airing along similar themes
          has become exhausted- it just looks like moaning.

          Perhaps time for acceptance of reality, respect for what people are trying to acheive, and working together
          in a true spirit of collaboration and comradeship.
          Out of that might come some radical ideas.

          I don’t think any one person has any claim of ideas being more superior than others- it’s a collective effort over time.

          Yes, New Lab was successful, especially in the early years-
          but look how it ended up?

          I would like to hear someone articulating Labour values though- for a change…..

          Jo

        • Anonymous

          Think of a few more who can go with him Murphy for one….

  • Anonymous

    From tonight’s London Evening Standard:

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/politics/article-24033012-david-miliband-has-12-months-to-make-bid-for-labour-leadership.do 

    I wonder who these gutless anonymous individuals are?

    • Anonymous

      The question is a good one why did Labour lose the last election, was it that people thought they did  have gonads to  fix the mess, or did people think the Tories were the ones? obviously not because both parties failed to get enough people to vote them into office.

      The next election may have the same problem low turn out,or people voting for the smaller parties as a sort of moan at the larger parties.

      Also if David did not want to  upset his brother why the hell did he do this media circus nothing like brotherly love ,

      But the seven points again tell us next to nothing really about what labour is about,  saying that the welfare  and the £26,000 cap was rubbish is an understatement, then again Labour welfare plans are about telling people everyone is work shy, or scroungers, and then today hearing that high ranking  official  at the students loans are earning £200,000 and paying no tax and telling me I’m work shy.

      Sorry politics have gone to hell.

      • Anonymous

        Good points robert. At the end of the day none of the parties have actually recognised that a hung parliament was delivered by a British public who were displeased with all of them, not just about expenses but how they were not addressing the big issues or any issues that directly effected people, other than to verbally abuse certain groups in a classic bully-victim-bully strategy. From what has been since, I still don;t think they get it. Personally I think we are nearing tipping point on a whole raft of issues and probably only have 5-10 years to sort some of it. I don;t see anyone ready to actually deal with these things.

    • Anonymous

      When our MP popped up for a question session in the midst of the corruption scandals, I suggested that one of the problems was that quotes were published off the record. I said if you believed something and wanted some journo to publish it you should let your name be attached. I was told that would be impossible as you couldn’t try and influence things without this kind of ‘nudge’ politics. I knew then that Westminster was too full of selfinterested pip squeaks to ever seriously change itself for the better.
      I may be naive but if you want a genuinely robust and ‘clean’ political system then people needs to grow the balls to say what they think and accept the consequences, if people did this more, we’d probably find that often the consequences would be less of an issue and less bad policy making would actually happen.

      • Anonymous

        Totally agree with you

      • Anonymous

        Balls  growing from between your legs, I’d have him removed if I was you.

        • Anonymous

          I presume this is why you prefer the alternative vernacular of gonads?

  • Anonymous

    I like David Miliband, and see nothing wrong with him wanting to air his views.  He has plenty to offer, and was voted into 2nd place in the Labour Leadership contest, so there is no reason why his views shouldn’t be given some precedence. After all, Andy Burnham, Ed Balls and even Diane Abbott are in the Shadow Cabinet and they finished behind him.
    I look forward to hearing more from him…

    • Anonymous

      David Miliband could have been in the shadow cabinet had he wanted to be, but he went off in a hissy fit. I am glad you like him – so does he. If he ever appears on Desert Island Discs I suspect his eight records will be 8 of his speeches and his luxury will be a full length mirror.

      • Anonymous

        Well, that’s debatable.  He needed time to reflect on his defeat, which he did, and now he’s back and wants to put forward some new ideas, why not?
        More Mp’s voted for him, remember, in the Labour leadership contest  than any other contender, so I’m sure a return to the Shadow Cabinet will be welcomed by most.  It’s not as though they’ve progressed very far without him…  Perhaps, they need a new face on board…

        • Dave Postles

          MPs should be full-time without external distractions.  They should also not succumb to cupidity.  ‘The Office of David Miliband’, IMHO, does not demonstrate these characteristics. 

          • Anonymous

            He is a back bench Mp, at the moment, and many of them pursue other things.  

          • Dave Postles

            Multiple wrongs do not make it right.

          • Dave Postles

            Multiple wrongs do not make it right.

          • Anonymous

            No, they don’t.  But why go after one, when many do the same?

          • Dave Postles

            How many of the others have resorted to the ‘Office of xy’?  If you reveal their names to me, I will castigate them equally, especially if the ‘Office’ receives hundreds of thousands of pounds in addition to their Parliamentary salary.  He has, IMHO, renounced any semblance of moral authority either to be a senior member of the Labour Party or offer policy advice or prescriptions.  Whenever the LP suggests any reform of CEO remuneration, the 50p tax rate, or tax avoidance, the Coalition, it seems, can simply point their finger in the house at Miliband senior.  When a significant proportion of the population is under considerable pressure, he can, it appears, resort to tax avoidance.

          • Dave Postles

            BTW how does ‘the Office of David Miliband’ square with Labour Party policy on the 50p tax rate?  I’d be interested.

        • Anonymous

          “New ideas”?. Would that they were!. This is just the old Blairite ideas reheated. They were beginning to lose their appeal to voters, especially Labour voters, ytears ago, and there kis little evidence to suggest they will be any more palatable in 2015.

          I wish David Miliband would reflect some more and resign as an MP and go off and persue his business interests – after all, hne has set jup a comopany to avoid the 50% tax rate. A lesson learned from his hero Blair no doubt.

          • Anonymous

            Clearly, he has interests in the Labour Party, or he wouldn’t have written this article. 
            Why the need for resignation?

          • Anonymous

            For his own good: he has great desire to make money, hence his business interests and the company he has set up to protect them.  There is only so much you can do to maximise your parliamentary expenses. He has nothing new to offer, just a rebranding of Blairism, which passed peacefully away 5 years ago now, deeply missed by the few,  welcomed by the many.

            And if David Miliband seriously believes that Labour is drifting to the left, doesn’t it rather prove how far to the right he is?

          • Hugh

             I’m confused: if Labour’s not drifting to the left, then surely Ed’s no better than David. Or did it drift to the left under Brown and now it’s drifting to the right, but not so far right as to Blair? Or is Ed currently just carrying on where Brown left off?

            Where do you see the Labour party currently? And where would it be ideally? And how in an ideal world would it look different to the the SWP or Socialists?

            Not a question just for you in particular solely – many of the comments on this site make me wonder.

          • Anonymous

            Hugh: Any rational person can see Labour is NOT “drifting to the left”. Ed Miliband didn’t become Mick McGahey or Derek Hatton on beating his brother to the leadership.

            My point is this: if David Miliband HONESTLY believes the party IS drifting to the left, it suggests he holds very right wing views: we have heard Liam Byrne endorse the welfare reform bill – a left wing leader would n ot have Byrne in that job holding those views.

            I don’t think Labour needs or would want to be a version of the SWP, by the same token, most people who hold left wing views certainly don’t want the party to be a slightly lighter blue Tory party: for one thing, as I tire of saying, why would Conservative voters want to vote for the Labour version of the Conservatives when their own original party is actually in power. A lot of Tories voted Labour in 1997 because they perceived their own party was in for a drubbing and they saw Blair as the next best thing (almost “one of us”). Which  he was.

            Where should it be? Well, making a strong case for more social housing, not demonizing people who are out of work, especially when they are more people unemployed than there has been for 17 years, and many older people are losing their jobs and will not find new ones.

            Where shouldn’t it be?. Well it should not look back to 1997 and think that a fresh coat of paint on Blairite policies, tarted up by David Miliband will be enough to recapture the voters it took for granted and lost.

            That is one of Labour’s problems: in the boom years – the years of Cool Brittania, guitarist Blair having pop mates round to No 10, Blair cadging free holidays off of Cliff Richard, Mandy making false claims on mortgage applications, Campbell stitching up the press, Labour lost sight of it’s core supporters, who were disgusted by the greed and dishonesty, but the party didn’t care – they had power. Now they don’t have power they are finding some of their old supporters don’t care about them.

          • Anonymous

            So very very true…

    • Anonymous

      Yes but if this is a move to take over, a lot of the members and the local parties are going to ask why now, they will also ask why are you not battling the Tories and instead  playing silly fools, then if labour loses the next election both brothers and the lap dogs will be lucky to stay within the party, do not forget  another election battle may well see others step in and both brothers could be out.

      • Anonymous

        It’s hardly a move to take over; it’s just one article.  I’m sure David understands that he won’t be the leader as long as Ed is leading, but if a chance should arise, then why shouldn’t he grab it with both hands, especially if he has an idea of where he wants to take the party?
        He hasn’t been in the public eye very much recently to take aim at the Conservatives, but I’m sure, given the chance, he would in a heartbeat.

        • Anonymous

          I begin to feel you are David Miliband’s wife!

          • Anonymous

            I’m beginning to think that you are one of his exes!

          • Anonymous

            Not my type, duckie!.I’d be vary wary of a bloke holding an erect banana in his hand :-)

          • Anonymous

            especially if it’s somebody else banana

          • TomFairfax

            Sorry to butt in here, (Fantastic riposte to Alan by the way) but Dave seems to find airtime when he wants it.

            In December, over the DC veto thing, it was possibly one of the most damaging interventions in ages, from any politician, since Lord Young suggested we’d never had it so good in 2010.

            Totally out of touch and talking up a policy direction predictably bound to boost the Tories. Which it did.

            Add the Murdoch taint, and I think you have an ambitious individual whose made sure he is as loathed as Ed Balls is at the opposite poles of the party.

          • Anonymous

            How was it damaging to Ed exactly?  He didn’t have a strong position on the veto and he still doesn’t now…
            I’m afraid, Ed and co have to take responsibility for the gains that the Conservatives have made.
            What’s wrong with ambition?  He’s not the only one in the Shadow Cabinet who entered for the Labour Leadership contest… 

          • TomFairfax

            How was it damaging?

            Because the polls show it was and I predicted on LL that only a special kind of idiot would do it.

          • Anonymous

            Thought so he cannot even handle his wives.

        • Anonymous

          I see , if your brother was leader of the labour party and you thought he needed help you go to the media, seems odd to me.

          • Anonymous

            How do you know that he hasn’t discussed this with his brother? We don’t know what happens behind closed doors.

  • Anonymous

    Must have hurt somebodies feeling my bit went missing.

    When we saw today David Miliband  on TV standing right next to him was another great new labour stalwart in Jim Murphy, and you cannot have a more new labour MP.

    And lets be honest this is not an accident to come out after  two weeks in which Ed Miliband has his best period  at PMQ’s . I think it’s way to obvious for this  just to be an accident, if you look around the new labour blogs you will see comment we can not forget Blair , we must not forget the third way, you cannot white wash New labour and Tony from the Labour memory.

    God it reminds me of the Tories after Thatcher left and kept the Tories out of power for three terms.

    And to say that he has made some great  idea’s for god sake are you saying David is brighter then Ed and  know what Labour needs do, to help Ed, I mean as brothers why not pop around for a cup of tea and a chat and discuss what you feel he needs do, not make a great  big speech to the media.

    This is a new labour attack and the battle does begin.

  • Anonymous

    he’s the leader not his brother so perhaps it’s David who is in the shadow and does not like it.

  • http://twitter.com/SimonG_1 Simon

    “The deficit soared here – as elsewhere – above all because of bank bailouts, tax revenues collapsing in the aftermath of financial meltdown, and soaring spending on welfare because of rising unemployment.”
    That simply isn’t true and confirms what David Miliband is saying. If you cannot even be honest within how do expect the public to trust Labour again?

    • Anonymous

      Deficit and the bail out and the welfare spending in nature was not because of the unemployment according to labour it was due in fact to many scroungers, and it was labour that was in power when the banks  exploded not the Tories, while Labour are in fighting the Tories are in fits of laughter. You have now taken the limelight off them and put it back onto labour.

    • TomFairfax

      Define ‘isn’t true’ in this case.

      Given that the Treasuries own records show the National Debt increased massively to pay for bank bail outs and tax revenues collapsed between 2008 and 2010.

      What wasn’t true, was George Osborne saying that the last government had created a deficit of a trillion pounds, when actually, that was his own unique achievement 18months later, as spending on welfare soared due to his policies causing  rising unemployment, on top of a collapse in revenues and the bank bail out costs.

  • Anonymous


    We all know that David Milliband is the best candidate to lead the party”

    Do we – all?

    Personally I can’t stand being spoken down to by this pompous little jerk.

    Besides that a few things will always come back to haunt him: the expenses scandal, his support for the Iraq war, his current business arrangements.

    I think DM would be a good leader for the Conservative party, but he would split the Labour party, and I think he would struggle to win an election

  • TomFairfax

    In December, just after DC made his stand to protect British interests. Given the national feeling on the EU I said it would be a special kind of idiot who would then attack DC’s stand.

    David Milliband the very next day proved he was that idiot. Then the Usual Suspects in the DM supporters clubjoined in as chorus.

    Ed saying something different didn’t help, the public perception was imprinted. Labour cares more about keeping in with the Commission that Britain

    Result: Labour plummeted in the polls and DC’s personal ratings surged.

    Please can people stop saying he is a clever and capable politician, even when it’s sugar coating critism. He so obviously isn’t either.

    Maybe clever for self obsessed, grafting, workshy, permanently discontented Blairite, would be nearer the mark.

    If he was so clever, he’d have understood that if he hadn’t spent so much effort undermining his previous boss so well, his derriere might well still be gracing a ministerial limousine.

    Basically if his ambition is to be Prime Minster he won’t get very  far trying to instigate infighting and making his party unelectable.

    • Anonymous

      I watched with horror DM’s rise through the party as a junior education minister I could never take him seriously there was one particularly inept letter that went out to heads one year, and yet I constantly heard who he was the next big thing. I think I must be out of touch, but then I don’t think I’ve seen many genuinely credibel politicians or leaders in the last 15 years.

      For some reason I am now posting with this username which i think I tried to set up when the site changed. Alias happy.fish

      • TomFairfax

        Alas Happy.Fish

        I may have been scathing, but its difficult to think of a single positive achievement on his part, unless undermining GB counts.

        Which may be why he’s so popular in some quarters.

    • Anonymous

      That’s the problem when people see themselves as great leaders DM will more then likely end up doing a deal to be leader, Brown mark two.

      • TomFairfax

        I hope you’re wrong.

  • Anonymous

    There is a danger Tom these kind of constant interventions make the party
    look divided and internally riven, instead of looking outwards and dealing
    with the bread and butter issues?

    It also lets the Tories off the hook yet again by creating a major distraction,
    and weakens Ed’s position; doesn’t allow him space to acheive small successes
    ordevelop things his way without a constant chorus of criticism on his back?

    How can anyone function like that- and who or what is leading this effort?

    Let’s have openness and transparency across the board- and fair play.

    • Anonymous

      This was in response to Tom’s post, but also slightly edited to add more- it seems to be on thread twice now- although I didn’t post it more than once.

      • TomFairfax

        Hi Jo,
        That’s very dry.  You should have posted it as DM .

    • Anonymous

      Look at that you got a like for testing……

  • Anonymous

    What David Miliband doesn’t “get” in this assault on the likes of Roy Hatterley is that Labour needs a consistent theme.  To most of us, this means enduring values and ethics, but not always specific policies.  I don’t think David Miliband seems capable of understanding what an enduring value is??  David’s problem is that he has been (and I assume probably still is) quite comfortable in the company of what many of think are the “wrong kind of people” – in other words, the kind who may (or perhaps may not) claim to be “socialists” or “social democrats” but whose prevailing thought is to make sure that they get “their cut” out of proceedings as they practise their “values”.

    I have been a Labour Party member since I was 15 (back in 1983).  We have probably been further from power during that time than many of today’s most pessimistic members may believe and yet I can’t remember ever feeling so disillusioned with so many of the Westminster ‘glitteratzi’ that head our party today.  Maybe it’s the corrosive and all-pervading ‘focus group mentality’ so espoused by Philip Gould (a roundabout that its occupants don’t know how or want to get off?) or maybe its the fact that politics has so obviously become a career and a life rather than a commitment?   I don’t regard Roy Hattersley’s comments as anything other than positive.  If that makes me ‘Reassurance Labour’, then fine.

    Oh yes… and I’m a Sunderland supporter.  I can’t see why they are paying David the reported £50000 even if he and they can.

    • Anonymous

      It’s quite amusing to see DM view Hattersley as some kind of left wing influence. Shows how far the party must have moved.

      • Anonymous

         … and, more pointedly, how far David has??

    • Anonymous

      What a marvelous post Robert, it says it all.

      • Anonymous

         Thanks Alan.  Best wishes to you. 

    • Dave Postles

      Robert Crosby.
      I’ll just like to reiterate Alan’s comments – thanks for your astute intervention.  Re-Miliband on the board, it seems more like the stadium of obfuscation than the Stadium of Light, but Martin will see you right. 

      • Anonymous

          Cheers Dave… I know that what I say isn’t as welcome at many Party
        meetings, but I hope that reflects more on other people than me on this
        one occasion?  Yes MON certianly has something!  Keane and Bruce did a
        lot for SAFC in their respective ways, but it looks like Bruce’s time
        just ran out of steam…

  • Peter Barnard

    @ Owen Jones,

     Good article, Owen.

    If “old Labour” (as today’s DTel headline) = the social and political values of  Clem Attlee and Harold Wilson (and most of the ministers in those governments), well, that’s where the Labour Party needs to be.

    As it happens, there’s more than a smidgin of “old Labour” in Miliband (E), methinks …

    • Anonymous

      If “old Labour” means real Labour- then I hope so Peter….

      I wonder why so much “paranoia” about being on the left?
      We are the Labour party after all!

      Jo

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        It’s because there are not many votes in being on the left, and being on the left but never in power is not very exciting.  It’s not only that, but also that people who try to fossilise the Labour Party at some mythical point in the past may not have modern political acumen.

        There is nothing at all wrong in being on the left. There is a great nobility to it.  But I think it comes down to a fundamental calculation:  is it better to compromise and to have some “slightly left” policies and be in power to put them in place, or to forever be in opposition and never have to compromise on principles?  Parties make their choice, the electorate indicates approval or disapproval.

        I’m not a member of the Labour Party, but I am very comfortable with the trajectory of the Party since the election defeat.  After a tantrum with New Labour from Party supporters (ongoing, predictably), the direction the leadership is choosing seems to me to be entirely coherent with a very slightly left of centre perspective, now that the Eds have conceded the stupid position they took on “we’ll cut, but we won’t say what, and we’ll oppose every cut the government makes, even if it makes sense”.  There’s all sorts of in-fighting going on between the realists and the dreamers, but by 2015 the manifesto will be clear enough, and the dreamers realise that socialism died in the 70s, and anything left of the 1997 manifesto is completely unelectable in the UK.  If supporters of positions to the left of 1997 wish to pursue their dream in another party, good luck to them.

        • Anonymous

          left, slightly left our distinctions of direction are getting as messy as the colour of the party. The Labour party one presumes is meant to represent the interests of the ‘labour’ element of the economy I guess. What that means today is complicated but if being left means standing up for those who would otherwise be exploited and trying to build a country in which everyone can contribute, and no-one is left behind then I kind of feel it might be quite popular after all. The problem is that for some reason the concept of the ‘left’ has been hijacked by both some extremists and also by those opposed to these principles (for whatever reason).

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            @ Alexwilliamz,

            I think it all comes down to definitions.  What I may call left may to others be centre left.  It’s very imprecise and on the internet prone to misinterpretation.  I like the political compass website as it tries to apply a mathematical approach, and also scopes the other axis (authoritarian / liberal).  

            To try to be more clear on my thinking, and assuming the left / right axis is graded from -10 to +10, with 0 being centre.  Personally, I’m about -1.  I would place social democracy as being from -4 to 0, purer socialism -8 to -5, and Marxist type communism -10 to -9.  Those are just my own interpetations.  I do not believe that the British electorate would vote in a Government with a manifesto of -3 or further left (or +3 or further right, for the tories).  I may be wrong on that.

            As for the “not many votes in being on the left” I said above, that is from looking at the bell curve of public opinion, which is pretty much centred on 0.  There’s not many people in the -10 to -4 section of the curve.  I’m not implying that there is anything wrong with them, just that there are not enough of them to attract much political attention.  It is the same on the right from +4 to +10.

            I think that the Labour Party are currently about -1 (and the tories about +1), as far as I can tell from speeches.  I’m comfortable with that, but I’m not a Party member.  

          • Anonymous

            I understand what you are saying but have no idea how you set up a scale. We could probably put some obvious ideas in an order but aside from that. I can also think of plenty of things that probably don;t fit and things held together but might be miles apart on this scale. To be honest there are values such as equality, dignity and positive freedoms which I would say are on the left but others on the right would claim them. I really don’t recognise myself as left or right, but I’m sure people would be able to apply a label to me, so not sure what that means, since I would not feel obliged to support a policy simply because it was considered of the left, if that label had been applied to me. Let’s be bold and throw out this nonsense deciding whether we agree with someone because of where they are on some abstract and imaginary scale and set out what our values are and then others can state their agreement/disagreement with them.

        • Anonymous

          Rather than this ridiculous political bubble of who cuts what, might Labour redefine the debate by simply setting out what we would spend money on and invest in. By that begin a real discussion setting out what we think the state should be doing and should be spending money on?

          • Anonymous

            You would have thought so, but I think the public have now been taken in that we have totally no money left and that spending would be wrong especially if it was thrown away on something like social housing, welfare, or even the NHS. You could say Brown Cameron and David and Ed has done a really good job of  making people think the cut have to come hence you have nobody fighting for wages even when industry are paying out to directors.

          • Anonymous

            For me the debate that is missing is what we should be spending money on. Once we agree that we can work out how much it would cost, how much we are short if at all, then find the money probably by shock horror taxation which the Tories have been quite happy to raise (eg VAT) anyway. If there is not enough money then we a) revise what we think is most important more importantly b) put strategies in place for long term measures to create the money needed to create the society we believe in.

        • Anonymous

          Jaime I think the point many of us try to make is that Labour will not win power by trying to be the Conservative party. If we are honest (and I think most of us on LL are, regardless of our viewpoint) some of the things Blair and Brown did in government, which the Daily Mirror & Guardian endorsed as well as large tranches of the party members, would have been greeted with horror had the Conservatives done it (I am thinking of things like 90 days detention, Blunkett making remarks like “immigrant children are swamping our schools” – just imagine the outcry if Gove had said it!,-  the massive closure of Post Offices etc), yet a great many people turned a blind eye. TBH I found this outrageous – to me a bad idea is a bad idea, whoever has it. IMHO you must have values, principles and honesty – and consistency. You have to believe in something, not shift your opinon with one eye on the polls (Liam Byrne suddenly realising this week that people with cancer are being given extra problems with the benefit reform measures, when honesty compels us to admit this hasn;t just started happening – it started happening when Purnell adopted the Freud report. For Byrne to be a hawk last week and a dove this merely makes him look at best, indecisive, or at worst, bogus. To me, he is the latter. Bogosity is his middle name.

          Opposition isn’t fun, but it is totally demoralising to believe in a party and its values for 40 years only to find every principle you and they believed in is up for discussion to curry favour with opinion polls.

          • Anonymous

            Yep 90 days, was a farce for Brown to tell  or show us he was in charge, but the loss of NHS dentist in my area, and the Welsh Assembly once in place, hired an American firm to carry out the NHS dentistry in my area, can you imagine that twenty years ago under the Tories an American firm doing NHS work

        • Anonymous

          Then perhaps you can tell me where it’s going and what it policies may be, after 46 years in labour it would be interesting to see this pseudo  Lefty right leaning semi Tory labour parties direction is.

      • Anonymous

        We have not been labour since Kinnock, John Smith wanted to move away from the Unions then of course Blair, even Ed  made a remark about the Union ,strikes and strikers, if labour is to the left, they will have to explain that one to me.

    • Anonymous


      As it happens, there’s more than a smidgin of “old Labour” in Miliband (E), methinks …”

      Peter, How could you!. Saying something like that late at night – you must have known it would give David nightmares. He had to sleep with the light on last night.

      Seriously, thanks for the reminder abt Clement Atlee and Harold. It needs to be said that these were good men who did a great deal of good.  Sadly, so many people in the party these days seem to think Labour either started with Blair, or they don’t know, don’t care, or are even slightly ashamed of our past: why that should be, I can’t imagine.

      • Peter Barnard

        @ Alan G,
         
        Thanks, Alan.
         
        Of course, times were different then (Attlee and Wilson). In an email to Martin Wolf after an excellent article of his in the FT on 25 January (Google Martin Wolf Public Goods), I sent him an email :
         
        “I just wonder …. would it be too much to suggest that one reason for the apparent success of the “golden age” of 1945-1974 was a sense – in the mature Western democracies, at least – that individuals did indeed feel that they were part of the whole, as it were?
         
        Perhaps, this was due to there being many shared memories of the Second World War (“we’re all in it together”)? As those memories have either become extinguished through death, or distant through time, individualism has replaced the collective spirit?
         
        Since the rebirth of neo-liberal economics (and I remember seeing Sir Samuel Brittan on TV, snorting that Mrs Thatcher – as she then was – “wasn’t a Conservative – she’s a Manchester Liberal”), there hasn’t been that sense of “belonging to the whole?”
         
        The ten years after the Second World War were notable in that the incidence of crime (as recorded by “serious crimes notified to the police”) actually stagnated, indicating a strong degree of social cohesion. Crime reached a low point about 1920, after which it doubled every twelve years or so. So much for the nostalgia of “a policeman giving you a clip around the ear … ”

        • Anonymous

          Hi Peter. I always remember in 1968 when LBJ wanted Britain to join him in Vietnam, how determined Harold was to make sure we didn’t. I am sure that knowledge of the horrors of World War 2 played a part in that decision, as much as I am sure that Ted Heath was determined to get us into the EEC in the belief that Europe needed to be united to ensure that such horror never happened again. Those men knew the lasting damage war did because they had seen it.

          Speaking for myself, I will always be personally grateful for the no to Vietnam, as I was, at the time was under 30 and frankly didn’t fancy the idea of having to be conscripted. That might sound selfish, but at least it’s honest (I am a devout coward!), but in the wider scheme of things I often wonder what might have happened if Blair had been P.M. at the time.   I’ve said it before, but I think one of the real monuments to Harold Wilson’s time is the Open University: what a wonderful and enduring legacy.

          Some of the more ardent New Labour supporters tended to damn with faint praise, or even dismiss,  the Wilson years, but in all honesty, I would far rather be remembered for the OU than Iraq, and the 1964 speech about “the new society that will be forged in the white heat of this new technology” was the first time I felt really inspired by a politician. And of course, Harold was brave enough to have all shades of opinion in his cabinets, not just cronies and yes men (and women)

        • Daniel Speight

            Peter it’s always interesting to look at real data. With the rise of Thatcher, Regan and the Hayekian economists we see a change in direction in the GINI coefficient of income equality.

          Very roughly you can see the difference in incomes between the poor and the richest becoming less up until the mid-seventies in the US and Britain. From then on they move in the opposite direction with the gap becoming greater. This should not be a surprise as that is what the neo-liberals wanted.

          What I suspect David Miliband and the Blairites will never call for is more income equality. I always disliked Roy Jenkins and the rest of the Gang of Four, but at least they did their damage from outside the party, not from within.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Bartlett/1363473603 Michael Bartlett

    We discussed David Miliband’s article at a Party branch meeting last night.  The comment that  best sums up the unanimous reaction to his article was,  “thank God he wasn’t elected leader”

  • Pingback: What David Miliband’s Intervention Really Means | Celyn

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