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Is this the true face of the Tories on Scottish independence?

March 31, 2012 6:20 pm

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Tomorrow the Sunday Times will carry another video from disgraced Tory ex-treasurer Peter Cruddas. Last week it was cash for access. This week it seems he’s talking down the Union. The Tories are defending the union? Well, with “help” like this…

“We, as a party, have to be seen to be fighting to keep the Union together. Even if we don’t agree with it, because at the end of it all, if the Scots say we’re out of here and they want to go independent, we can turn around and say it’s not what we wanted, it’s not what we campaigned for, you can’t have this, you can’t have that, and you can get on with it.”

The Conservative party have made no comment.

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  • Franwhi

    Maybe they secretly think they’ll get more supporters in an independent Scotland when they’e jettisoned the toxic London lot. Labour should take a leaf …

    • Holly

      What Labour are ‘secretly’ thinking, as we chat, is, IF Salmond gets his way, Labour would never have a majority in England again. Relying on the Scottish MP’s in the HoC, would be a thing of the past.
      IF Salmond does not get his way, Scotland will get devo-max, thus less funding from London. Cameron could also stop Scottish MP’s voting on matters that only affect England.
      I bet Labour are ‘secretly’ thinking, while we chat, ‘Oh blooming heck’!**
      Labour already KNOW the implications of this, whatever the Scottish people decide, and they don’t like it one bit.

      • Amber Star

        Labour governments have almost always had a majority which exceeded the number of Scottish MPs. i.e. Labour does not need Scotland to be in the UK to win an election.

        • Holly

          That was then, but this is now.
          Labour ‘fixed’ it in Scotland so results like the one that Salmond won would never happen. But somehow Alex did win.

          From what I have heard on this, the problem for Labour is here in England, in the HoC.
          Many policies have been voted on successfully with the help of Scottish Labour MP’s, if they are no longer there it will be harder for them.
          How many MP’s representing Scottish constituencies sit in Westminster?
          They will go to Holyrood if Scotland votes for independence, they may also be disallowed to vote on policies that only affect us south of the border when devo max is being negotiated.
          I don’t know, but Labour know the problems that could lie ahead.

          • John Ruddy

            Actually, Holly, the electoral system for the Scottish parliament was designed to prevent a LABOUR majority Government.

            Its designed to be proportional, but like all systems, can cause problems, for instance the SNP had only 44% of the vote, but 53% of the seats.

        • Holly

          Further to my previous reply. 
          Google.. In a FoI request November 2010.There are 59 MP’s with a constituency in Scotland.

        • GuyM

          Remove Scottish MPs voting on English matters

          Remove Welsh MPs voting on English matters

          Reduce the number of constituencies

          Even the constituencies up in size

          Redraw constituency boundaries

          Then see just how high a barrier to governing England there is for Labour then

          • John Ruddy

            Labour won a majority of seats in England in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

          • GuyM

            All of which were unprecedented landslides with out the benefit of consituency boundaries being redrawn.

            Have a think as to what might happen in 2015 and see how confident you are of governing England?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        Holly: if this did happen then there would be an effective breakup of the UK. Our politics has become so skewed that the northern regions would be very unlikely to be happy ruled by the south-eastern Tories. England has very little to unite it these days

  • http://twitter.com/Willie_Fleming Willie Fleming

    Labour in Scotland should bow to the inevitable. To do otherwise is to be consigned to the dustbin of history and entirely new parties of the left will form. There may yet be time for some of Scottish Labour to salvage itself but time is rapidly running out.The careers of Mgt Curran, Tom Harris, Jackie Baillie and many others are irrevocably over, however there is possible hope for Sarwar and a few others. Whether they will ever be able to stand under a banner of Labour and a rose logo remains to be seen. Years of negativity, putting the future of the Union before the best interests of the Scottish people will not quickly be forgotten or forgiven.

    • Bill Lockhart

      The “inevitable” is that the Scottish people will continue vote to remain in the Union. That’s why Salmond chickens out of a one-question independence referendum and always will. The last thing Scottish politicians of any party  really want is responsibility for the Scottish economy but without the money pipe from London.

      • http://twitter.com/Willie_Fleming Willie Fleming

        Dream on, pal.  You’ve been reading that Daily Mail, haven’t you? Maybe even that evening London rag as well. Acquaint yourself with the facts (or at least a version of them from more than one source) before making pronouncements as above.  Seriously. 

        Yer empires fucked, btw.

        • Bill Lockhart

          I’m Scottish, so don’t bother with the Braveheart crap, pal.
          An economically viable independent Scotland is in the future and always will be.  2/3rds of Scots know that and want to stay in the Union. That proportion will increase when the cold reality of  an unsubsidised economy is presented as an actual possible future. Scots may be incurably romantic but they aren’t stupid.

          • jelliedeels

            Scotland too poor to be independent ,doesn`t say much for the union 

        • GuyM

          Why on earth a country the size of Enlgand would worry about Scotland is something perhaps you can explain?

          We’d keep our military, the UN security council seat, EU membership and hopefully put nice border controls on your only land border.

          As an Englishman all I can say is “go SNP”, the sooner we are rid of Scotland the better

  • Holly

    Let us look at the clues here.
    Cameron says he’ll fight to keep the union.  
    Salmond replies, Rich Toffs in Westminster telling us Scots THEY are better at governing Scotland. How very dare they!
    One plays to those who want to stay united, the other plays to ‘rich’(Cameron/Westminster) v ‘poor’ (Alex/Scotland).
    Ring any bells how some politicians want to divide us up into neat little audiences?

    Salmond has held the titbit of an independence referendum over the Scottish people, and the Westminster government for years, and enjoyed every minute of it. Yet he has never mentioned the implications that go with it.
    If the Scottish people chose to stay in the union, Alex can’t even whine on about devo-max, because Cameron has already offered devo-max.
    If they chose independence, the Scottish MP’s will move up north, so English MP’s can’t count on their votes, as they have in the past, and… the Midlothian question will be tackled.

    Cameron either gets credit for successfully keeping the union together, or gets rid of a number of Scottish MP’s from Westminster, and all the implications that entails.
    Whatever the outcome, Cameron can’t lose.
    Whether he ‘agrees’ with it or not is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

  • Amber Star

    I’m Scottish, I’m British & I want to stay within the UK. Labour need no longer feel it is joining hands with the Tories when campaigning to keep the country united. Now Labour alone is the party of unity – so go to it. The majority of Scotland’s people want the UK to stay together.

    The Tories played politics with the fuel crisis; now they are playing short-term, electoral politics with the long-term future of my country. They are, indeed, ’lower than vermin’.

    • Spreadthewordx

      I’m Scottish and tired of the elitist, selfserving, morally bankrupt Westminster parties and politics. Neither Tory nor Labour will get my vote ever again. Independence might not come this time, too many people afraid of change and indoctrinated by a biased media to believe that independence would be difficult. But if it doesn’t happen this time, it will not go away, a few more years of incompetent and corrupt politics (almost guaranteed) will eventually drive independence through.

  • JoeDM

    Devomax simply means that the English taxpayer goes on bankrolling the profligate Scottish assembly.

    If the Scotts want to go their own way, the so be it. But it must not be financed by English taxpayers.

    • Jimbennett

      1. There in’t, and never has been, a Scottish Assembly. Scotland has a parliament and government.
      2. Scotland is, and has been for the last 20 years, a net contributor to the UK economy. See the UK Treasury figures.
      3. The level of public spending per head in London is higher than in Scotland.

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