“The next big scandal”

24th March, 2012 11:17 pm

Update: Tory Co-Treasurer Peter Cruddas has resigned overnight. The line which is being focussed on most from the Sunday Times report seems to be:

“If you’re unhappy about something, we will listen to you and put it into the policy committee at number 10 – we feed all feedback to the policy committee.”

In light of the big Sunday Times splash, it’s worth remembering what Cameron said about lobbying two years ago:

“It is the next big scandal waiting to happen. It’s an issue that crosses party lines and has tainted our politics for too long, an issue that exposes the far-too-cosy relationship between politics, government, business and money.”

And here’s that Sunday Times front page:

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  • TomFairfax
    • derek

      How will Guy and Jaime try and defend this one?

      • GuyM

        Nothing to defend if it’s in Cameron’s own time.

        All politician’s are involved in massive fund raising exercises.

        I can’t see the difference between 200 people paying to attend a black tie Tory ball with the PM and one person paying to meet him with funding to the Tory party.

        Labour do it, LibDems do it, all parties do it.

        If however the money buys policy or rewards i.e. honours then we are in a different area.

        Unless you publicy fund all political parties, they need to raise money. The biggest draw for most will be the leader and in the case of the governing party the PM.

        I attended Tory party events with Thatcher, Major, Tebbit, Hurd etc. years ago and they were naked fund raising events.

        I have no problem with Labour doing the same with Milliband’s free time. How do you expect either party to be able to finance election campaigns etc. otherwise?

        • derek

          But the clips clearly shows spoken evidence that the treasurer said that a sum of £250,000 would be very good for the individuals position? so it does sound like funding for favours rather than political support.

          • GuyM


            If £250 gets you a seat at some large funraising dinner and £1,000 gets you membership of a Tory “business club” what do you think £250,000 gets?

            I went along to a Tory business club meeting a few months back. A local MP, junior Minister, MEP and London Assembly member with around 40 local business people. The “club” is a paid affair that generates money for the party and in return you gain “access” to all those elected people.

            Is it ethical? That depends on your view, but how do you expect political parties to fund their activities otherwise?

          • Hamish

            Guy, You’re trying to defend the indefensible.
            These donations are not about party funding.
            They are about buying influence.
            Why do political parties need so much cash anyway?
            Surely their most valuable resource is the voluntary efforts of their supporters.  Free internet access means their is no need for slick paid advertising.

          • Hamish

            Last ‘their’ should be ‘there’ of course.

          • GuyM

            If you think you can run a GE campaign from party membership i.e. £10 from some little old ladies, then you need to go and do a bit of basic maths.

            Voluntary efforts in parties don’t go very far these days. I suspect you’d find both Labour and the Tories have swathes of the country they can no long canvass due to falls in volunteer manpower.

            As to internet access, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of advertising/marketing channels.

            Advertising is a “push” medium. High profile in the right spots that can reach a key “public”.

            The internet is a “pull”, you have to drive traffic to a site, which in itself requires online advertising.

            THe marketing mix for all organisations changes with technology advances but to think anyone, corporate or political can ditch “advertising” just for online fundamentally misunderstands marketing.

          • Holly

            Don’t forget the clips were edited, so we do not know in what context the clips meant in the conversation.
            I would have sacked him BEFORE he got the chance to slither off by resigning.
            What are Balls & Miliband saying?
            This could be Cameron’s once in a Conservative governments lifetime chance to cap ALL donations to political parties, maybe low enough for the Lib Dems to help push it through, I reckon he’ll jump at the chance. 
            Lets see how different this governments response is to this & lobbying compared to the last one.

        • Amber Star

          According to the Guardian, Peter Cruddas discussed ways to channel the illegal foreign donation: Via a UK company or UK employees; deliberately channeling donations to circumvent the laws about donations is also illegal. 

          • TomFairfax

             The thing that interests me about the Grauniad story is that the meeting with Cruddas was set up by a former aide to Dave Cameron, who had proposed the ‘Big Donation’ was the way to get access and influence.

            So, why did one of Dave Cameron’s former aides suggest this as the best option?

            It will be interesting to know whether Sarah Southern is available for comment today.

          • Peter Barnard

            @ Thomas F,
            There’s an interesting dilemma for Mr Cruddas (and others) here, TF.
            It appears that Mr C is now saying that he was misleading (Mr C calls it “bluster”) the people that he was talking to.
            Now, given that he has admitted that he is capable of misleading people, how do we know that this admission is not, in itself, untrue?
            Include the following words in a sentence …. worms, opened, whole can …

          • AlanGiles

            Also, of course, if Mr Cruddas is saying that it was “bluster” to make people part with their money, and not a genuine offer, surely hat makes him a confidence trickster taking money by false pretences?

          • TomFairfax

            And Sarah Southern an accomplice.

            I don’t think Tory Central office have applied their finest minds to this. (At least not ones that fit the description.) Must be the Sunday effect.

            New verb in the making:
            They have a false prospectus.
            You are economical with the actualitie
            I bluster.

          • TomFairfax

            Not only is can opened but the contents have well and truly made a very quick and wriggley bid for freedom. More vipers than worms though.

            Do you think they’ll be any spread betting on which on the scale of ‘bluster’?

          • GuyM

            If he did that then he’s in a lot of bother and should be held to account.

            However, let’s not forget one other little fact… a Murdoch paper running a political sleaze story, very useful at this time.

            Both parasitical sides continuing to feed off each other.

          • treborc

             perhaps it’s the way politics and the media should be, perhaps Murdock has said tell you what if the Tories mess up we will print it, not run around looking at what labours done and then forgetting to tell us about Cameron’s lot.

            free press, and a press which should not be attached to one political group.

          • treborc

            I can get a meeting with Blair for £5,000.

            I can get a meeting with Cameron for £250,000

            I can get you a peerage for say £200,000.

            Politics we always knew it was a dirty game, but the Tories cost more that’s all.

        • AlanGiles

          I attended Tory party events with Thatcher, Major, Tebbit, Hurd etc.”

          Yes of course you did Guy. I am sure they were honoured to be in the presence of genius.

          When did you last have Shepherds Pie and champagne with Jeffrey Archer? 🙂

          • Amber Star

            And apparently they were “naked” fundraisers. One can only hope that GuyM is using the term “naked” in a figurative sense!

          • AlanGiles

            I don’t much like Sundays – and the thought of a naked Tebbit and Hurd has made this one even more revolting than usual 🙂

          • Holly

            You don’t like Sundays?
            I spent the first half an hour thinking it was Monday, and it was an hour before I realised what the right time was.
            The other downside is that tomorrow will only be Monday instead of Tuesday!
            I feel all discombobuated.

          • GuyM

            Never met Archer and many others, but as to the list yep I was dinners with all of them.

            It’s standard practice Alan, doesn’t mean you are sitting next to them having a chat, but you pay a fair sum for some black tie event or swanky dinner with some political high flyer.

            I presume you’ve never been in a political party? It’s how every sinlge last one of them raises money, so why not direct you incredulity at the political process because leading party politicians are doing it over and over at constituencies every week.

          • AlanGiles

            Thank you Guy – condescending as ever. I was a member of the Labour Party for many years, but as I had quite a hard demanding job I never found the energy to hob- nob in black tie, nor would I have wanted to. I never felt the need to attend “swanky” dinners to boost my ego.

            It just gets boring reading about your exploits and boasting all the time though: this is Labour List and not “Guys List” you know. 🙂

          • GuyM

            If you don’t think that most political party members don’t take full advantage of the social opportunities then you must be a real puritan bundle of laughs.

            Cheese and Wines, Race nights, Garden Parties and Dinners (some of which were black tie). That’s how constituency parties raise money as you well know.

            If the Tories have more black tie events than Labour well I can’t say I’m surprised, but I see nothing wrong with a summer ball somewhere nice.

            The funny thing about your complaints about my [posts, is that you not only respond to most of them but also post your own views elsewhere. Is it “AlanGiles List” perhaps?

          • AlanGiles

            You go and enjoy your balls,  Guy

          • Jeff_Harvey

            Poor old Guy. Has he got an inferiority complex or what?

          • GuyM

            “GuyM posting again…. ahh I MUST respond…”

            Alan I’m beginning to think you are a stalker.

            Why not go mingle with some working class youth (your sort of thing) and leave the black tie balls to your betters?

          • AlanGiles

            You are just about the most obnoxious twit who has ever posted on this site.

            I get sick to death of your offensive snobbery (“leave the black tie balls to your betters?”)

            Yesterday you mentioned  approvingly that “Surrey is 90% white)

            We forever have to endure your stupid right wing rants, usually backed up with some big-headed reference to yourself.
            You must be a very sad and insecure little man to have to feel you have to give yourselves these ridiculous airs and graces, to pretend you know it all, to brag about your home, your wonderful job (which seems to entail very little work if your numerous appearances on this site are anything to go by), how much “superior” you are to everyone else.

            I don’t think I am alone in being bored by your constant presence on this site – especially as you are not even slightly sympathetic to the left. Why you are allowed to continue to post your nasty, offensive bigoted messages, I don’t know.

            If a poster could give off a physical stink with each message, you would be the one to do it.

            Get this, Guy: You are no more “important” than anybody else on this site. I think you would have been in your element in Germany in the early 30s strutting round in your jackboots, while dreaming of the master race, of which, you, no doubt, would have been a leading light.

            Now why don’t you go and take a nice walk on the North Downs

          • GuyM

            I didn’t mention approvingly of anything, I stated a demographic fact that bore out the !white flight” phenomenon and the fact “London” as a single mass doesn’t exist and hasn’t ever done so.

            But I note now you are implying racism? You reeally are beyond the pale Alan, how about you bring yourself to stop replying to my posts and live your life without stalking others mm?

            You really can’t take the fact I detest what you  represent and who you represent? Tough, lets ignore each other and you go and show some indignation elsewhere as you are simply a tedious bore.

            As to being “sympathetic2 to the left, as I’ve said over and over I was very sympathetic to Blair and came very close to voting for him.

            Now run along and stalk someone else.

          • AlanGiles

            You are so prejudiced Guy I wouldn’t put anythingpast you.

            You “thought about” voting for Blair “once” and you think that gives you the right to dominate LL and castigatethose of us on the Left who don’t want to hear your narrow minded views?

            This is 2012, not 1932 – we don’t talk – as you did on Saturday- about the “lower classes”. You are a joke, but you’ll find nobody laughing. Why don’t you just bugger off and take your nasty, rancid  petty ideas with you?

          • Jeff_Harvey

            Billy Liar and Walter Mitty also attended the same “swanky” dinners as GuyM, apparently, Alan, although they never got to speak to him as Guy was always fully occupied advising Nigel Lawson, Geoffrey Howe and Douglas Hurd about economic, foreign and domestic policy, respectively. 🙂

          • GuyM

            Given the fact I was a University Tory Chair and an Area Chairman of the Young Conservatives many many years ago, you think I didn’t end up at CCO and the Palace of Westminster reguarly?

            Standard practice to be at party conference, meetings with senior party leaders and government members?

            Grow up

          • Jeff_Harvey

            No son of Adam or daughter of Eve even slightly as successful and accomplished you boast of being has wasted so much time blowing their own trumpet as loudly and discordantly as you have, Guy.

            The Minotaur bullshit less while held captive in his labyrinth than you do here on LabourList for reason or reasons unknown.

            Be off with you!

            You have eaten far too much of the White Witch’s enchanted Turkish Delight already… disdainfulness and coldness seem to have turned your heart to ice.

          • GuyM

            Hardly, in fact I’ve readily admitted that my time involved with the Tory party eventually put me off politics (to the extent I nearly voted for Blair in 2001).

            Too much pressure to agree collective lines that you just don’t believe in personally.

            Too much greasy pole climbing, factional back stabbing and careerist concerns.

            What I find funny, is that you can have all sorts of “leftist” posters here who talk of involvement with Labour party positions and it’s all accepted.

            But because I am from the other side originally, then clearly all my background must be made up and fictional.

            But who are the hell are you Jeff? What have you ever done? What background experience do you bring to the party? Or are you just some simple minded attack dog of the left who trolls about on LL (and elsewhere I guess) getting petty with those you don’t agree with.

            I met many like you in the Tories, you aren’t unique to Labour. You are the sort of person I met, shuddered and thought I don’t want to work with politically under any circumstances, so I resigned and got out.

            The one big benefit your sort (Like AlanGiles) provide is reaffirmation why I’d not ever now get involved in the democratic process or public service for love nor money. So thanks to you for that.

          • Jeff_Harvey

            May Aslan’s breath unfreeze the chambers of your stony heart…


            Blow your horn!

          • GuyM

            More of a Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones fan myself.

            But whatever floats your boat Jeff, you enjoy.

          • AlanGiles

            “shuddered and thought I don’t want to work with politically under any circumstances, so I resigned and got out.”

            If you don’t want to be involved why do you come on here, day in, day out?
            I can only assume that as you like to talk about yourself so much, it is like a psychiagtrists couch for you, where you can explore your fantasies.

            Resign and get out now, we will cope without you

          • Jeff_Harvey

            The reason you know very little about my own background and family is because I don’t consider it good form to bullshit about such things, on public forums, in the tiresome and  unnecessary way that you do, Guy.

            My objections to your posts relate less to your obvious snobbery, selfishness, egoism, coldness, crassness,  stupidity, inhumanity, insularity and faux-elitism as your your  clamorous need for attention and stabs at self-aggrandisement which, when exhibited by a mature individual, I find worrying, wearisome and unbecoming.

            I have no doubt whatsoever that much of your auto-hagiography IS manufactured. More than that I would contend that, if all the old posts from LabourList’s previous incarnation were available, I could present any amount of internal evidence relating to inconsistencies and contradictions in material you previously submitted to back my contention up.

            Under normal circumstances none of this would matter a jot to me. 

            But when people start asserting that they are members of some kind of elite superior sub-species inherently and innately better than the rest of the ruck of humanity, where the rest of we poor fallible humans beings dwell, bursting that bubble is the only way to go.

            What a space oddity you are to be sure.

        • TomFairfax

          ‘I have no problem with Labour doing the same with Milliband’s free time. How do you expect either party to be able to finance election campaigns etc. otherwise?’

          You’ve put your finger on the precise problem. The main parties no longer aspire to have mass membership/support because it’s hard work and they’d have to consider the views of the members not a few financially well backed interest groups.

          This type of fund raising by large individual donation, regardless of party is precisely what is wrong with the supposedly democratic process today and explains why so often you can’t drive a wedge between the policy substance of the competing parties. Competing for generally the same financial backers support.

          • treborc

             ‘I have no problem with Labour doing the same with Milliband’s free
            time. How do you expect either party to be able to finance election
            campaigns etc. otherwise?’

            Yes and that’s why Danny Alexander has been given the task through his leader Clegg to have cross party meetings to discuss ending the need for donations.

            State funding anyone…..

          • TomFairfax

             err.. No.

            If state funding has to be based on membership possibly defensible, but based on votes where the elector has a choice between Tweedle Dum or Tweedle Dee?

            Pass the bucket I think I’m going to be sick.

          • treborc

            Well labour would I suspect jump at state funding it would of course be on the number of MP’s not membership.

            Anyway we will see, we now have this and peerages for Labour, between expenses and this, politics seems to be dragging it’s self along the gutter right now.

          • TomFairfax


          • Amber Star

            The proposal is £x/vote cast at the previous GE.

          • treborc

            That would be interesting when it comes to working out the money for Scotland and Wales.

          • GuyM

            State funding means we all get taxed to give politicians money to spend.

            I can’t see much support for that, I certainly don’t want it to come about.

      • TomFairfax

         Mr Cruddas has pretty well confirmed by resigning that attempts are now  to attempt damage limitation, not denial.

        A bit silly defending it if even the Tory central office has given up on that one as a pointless task. (Personally I’d have waited before leaping in feet first without looking. The video has Cruddas so bang to rights it’s obvious he’d have to go, barring the outbreak of war with Mars)

        You’d want to defend something where you have a chance of winning, or no other choice exists, thereby confirming oneself as someone with some finger on the pulse or resolute in the face of adversity,  not everything, however indefensible, which merely confirms the defender has little or no judgement.

      • If they have any sense they won’t. However it is worth pointing out that this behaviour seems to be endemic throughout the political world.  
        Stephen Byers, Patricia Hewitt anybody?

        • AlanGiles

          I for one have condemned them equally for their behaviour. Disreputable behaviour is unacceptable for any politician “honourable member” and their hypocrisy in talking about rights and responsibilities. They seem to think they have all the rights and we have all the responsibility.

          For Cameron to have made such a big issue of this two  years ago, only to find out that one of his senior officers was at it, shows, yet again, what ;poor judgment he has – this man excuses himself with pleading “bluster” and just a few weeks ago we had the debacle of the woman who ran A4e.

          It might behove the Conservatives who post on this site in such numbers to remember these incidents when they speak of Labour indiscretions – no party is immune from jiggery-pokery – they are all in this together.

          • Problem with that argument  is that the same poor judgement was shown when Byers and Hewitt were appointed to Cabinet positions only for them to abuse those positions when the retired.  It will happen again – whether to the Tories, LibDems  (and what a mess they are in over party funding) or Labour.

          • AlanGiles

            I can’t disagree with you there. I would never have had that pair in cabinet. Or Milburn…Hutton…Hoon…Blunkett, but of course they were all Tony’s cronies

          • treborc

             Not a lot of difference now is it, we are hearing about Blair who is not a politician now having meetings with new MP’s and the leader of Labour.

             Blair walked away, it seems not from his power base which is labour for now but could be the Tories tomorrow

  • TomFairfax

    The worst thing about this isn’t the sale of access, it’s,

      “If you’re unhappy about something, we will listen to you and put it
    into the policy committee at number 10 – we feed all feedback to the
    policy committee.”

    That suggests government policy making is for sale, at the very least.

    Not sure how this will run, but the filming of the meeting means Cruddas is almost certainly soon to be an ex-treasurer.

    The question now is, clearly the Times were working on a tip off, so what happened to the previous fees, and if they can’t go directly to the Conservative Party legally, which convenient front organisation did they go to?

    Unfortunately the Times is behind a Murdoch pay wall, and I’ve no intention of contributing to the Dirty Digger’s bank balance to find out how thorough their investigation was.

    • GuyM

      It means feedback is considered….. much as feedback through constituency political committees is considered.

      • TomFairfax

        Bit of an assumption there.  (ASS U ME is how we describe assumptions at work.)

        I don’t know about you Guy, but when I give feedback on something in my professional sphere I expect some actions, not mere consideration of my comments.

        Lobbyists aren’t there to just get a posh snack and a word in Cameron’s shell like ear. They have a job. Results are expected.

        You could be right of course, but you have no way of knowing you are unless Peter Cruddas is a friend and told you so. But he’s involved in politics, so even then you can’t be sure.

        • GuyM

          I have no problem with tory party members and donors having more sway over tory party policy than “the man on the street”.

          Or put it this way, all things being equal if you are Labour leader are you more likely to take account of the trade union movement, especially one who backs you heavily finance wise, or some people who don’t fund you, support you or vote for you?

          This is just another example of one party of the other getting all high and mighty over the other when the whole system is based upon cash for access and patronage.

          • TomFairfax

             Actually I think all parties would choose not to have this as a main headline, but can’t ignore it now, because the electorate clearly won’t like it.

  • Amber Star

    Get ready to repel all attacks, people because the Tories are planning to turn this around with Cameron & Clegg claiming the moral highground (un-freak’n-believable!!!) & using it to re-open the debate about Party funding with a view to capping Union donations to the Labour Party or – at the very least – demanding an opt in, rather than an opt out policy. Labour must dig its heels in on Union funding. This must be our opportunity to level the playing field against the massive funding which the Tories receive from Ashcroft, bankers & hedge fund managers without losing our ability to raise funds via open, democratic organizations which are affiliated to our Party.

  • AlanGiles

    Mr. Cruddas has resigned overnight:


    Now what are those five words everyone utters in these circumstances?. Oh yes…I have done nothing wrong. 🙂

    • Amber Star

      Peter Cruddas has had to admit that he did do something wrong… but it was “bluster” & he did without anybody’s knowledge or authorization etc. But it’s the bit about how to legitimise illegal donations which is the ‘killer’. There was no way he could get around that or mis-characterize it as “bluster”.

      • treborc

        State funding is the big word now.

  • AlanGiles

    Cameron really is all wind and water. Remember  how against a third runway at London Airport he was, so much so that he even made a manifesto pledge about it?

    Well, that was then – this is now:


    Which begs the question – who is in charge Cameron or Osborne?. At every circus I ever knew it was the ringmaster who cracked the whip – not the clown.

    • Amber Star

      Heathrow runway? One wonders how much it cost in ‘donations’ to get this decision revisited….

    • TomFairfax

      Clown means DC in this context? Not the part time Chancellor who clearly didn’t have the time to pay too much attention to drafting a budget or gaining any economic background knowledge whatsoever.

      Clearly he spends too much time sleeping or gazing out of the window on flights to finance minister junkets around the globe.

      • GuyM

        I suggest you read some of the articles on Osborne in The Times.

        You can accuse Osborne of many things as a leftwinger, but part time is not one of them.

        If anything he has taken on a little too much power and responsibility to be fully effective.

        • TomFairfax

           I think maybe you should read the Telegraph.

          No doubt my repeating that papers views makes them left wing as well.

          Same issue different reporting. Better to do one task well than many badly. Unless you advocate poor government as an objective.

  • Amber Star

    “Lobbying – we all know how it works”, Cameron said in a speech on rebuilding trust in politics. “The lunches, the hospitality, the quiet word in your ear… helping big business find the right way to get its way… with money buying power, power fishing for money and a cosy club at the top making decisions in their own interest.” 

    LOL! We thought it was an anti-lobbying speech, Peter Cruddas thought it was an invitation to Tory donors…

    • TomFairfax

       Clearly the main UK parties are none of them ‘whiter than white’ on this.

      However, you’d think, having given this issue a higher profile, DC would have had the sense to make sure that his party wouldn’t through themselves bodily onto this particular bear trap.

      Given the normal pace of decision making, as evidenced by the drawn out disclosure of DC’s ability to get on a horse the right way round and without falling off, the speed of Mr Cruddas’ resignation seems lighening fast.

      Panic? Wanting to kill story before it spreads? Or Mr Cruddas is a specially honourable participant in a spectacularly dishourale trade?

      Telegraph reports he was pushed. Such a speedy sacrifice obviously warrants further attention.

      Sarah Southern I imagine isn’t going to land her old boss in the mire unless the evidence is overwhelming before she’s questioned.

      I’m afraid this one calls for all party donations to be traced back, not to the final donor, but through to where they got the money from. Forensically. A report between now and 2014 will do.

      Will this put off personal donations? Well, yes, if the threshold is low enough to catch cash being provided by multiple conduits to disguise the size and source. After all nobodies going to do it as inexpertly as that idiot from the north east a few years back.

      Is that a bad thing? Depends whether you think political parties are there to serve the people in a democracy or just those groups with the biggest lobbying budgets.

      SME’s create jobs more surely than big oligopolistic businesses, which tend to expand by means that would invoke the anti-trust laws in the States, but they have no voice in a country where money buys political influence.

      • derek

        Straight to the heart of government with a bag of cash.£250,000 and you can make some policy to suit yourself, heck if your 
        Adam Werritty you can be an MOD negotiator, throw in Coulson, Laws, Fox and the godfather Murdoch and it’s just one big racket.

        • TomFairfax

           Agreed. But not one limited to the coalition parties.

          • derek

            So Lansley should hold his hands up and the whole NHS reform should be scrapped because private business was seeking an advantage.

          • TomFairfax

             Probably won’t happen. But enough on the record speeches to make it highly embarrassing for the Zombie Secretary.
            (Kind of like ‘dead man walking’, but still dangerous.)

          • Holly

            You could also say the same about the state calling for the reform bill scrapping, because they too wish to keep the advantage.
            I think monopolies are bad for the user.

          • derek

            For the people of course, not for the profiteers?

        • GuyM

          Of course you can, why should someone with £1 have the same ability to gain access as someone with £250,000 when you are expecting parties to fund themselves?

  • Daniel Speight

     Was this a reminder from Murdoch to Cameron that he expects some help with his current problems? A shot across the bows even?

    It’s also noticeable that Ed Miliband has gone quiet on News International recently. Is this due to Tony lobbying on Rupert’s behalf at the secret meetings he has been having with Ed?

    • GuyM

      I have to agree with you there.

      This I suspect was timed to co-incide with a bit of bad press on the budget. An attempt to direct public anger back at politicians and get his business out of the spotlight.

      • Daniel Speight

         No, I don’t think you do Guy.

        For me it was the shot across Cameron’s bows. A warning of what the old man can do. Maybe he’s also thinking about the damage tomorrow’s Panorama is going to do to New International’s reputation with OFCOM.

        Is old Rupert’s threat to take down a bunch of politicians with him if he goes? I suspect the only thing saving them (politicians) is Murdoch still has to keep some respectability for  his US operations. Seems to be coming harder all the time for the Met not to charge young James.

        • Holly

          Some interesting points.
          Murdoch’s lawyers have already warned about future action regarding the Panorama programme, but I’m more curious as to which politicians.
          I also find it breathtaking that all the accusations for being ‘corrupt’  are directed at Murdoch, when to me it is the police who are the corrupt one’s. I don’t know about you but I DEMAND that the police should arrest, or at least caution, anyone offering payment to them.
          Sadly, in this case it has gone on for years, unhindered, and unreported by the police bods at the middle & the top. 
          Murdoch is far from the only villain in this saga and I hope the truth is uncovered.
          I am not very hopeful of this though when you get the main bod in charge giving out so much detail at the Leveson inquiry, endangering any future court action, for fear of the accused not able to get a fair trial….Surely a top bod in the police should know this, so why did she do it?????
          She could have refused to answer, because of the reasons given above.

          • AlanGiles

            There is little doubt there is corruption amongst the police, but they had to be available to corrupt to procure their services in the first place. Plainly if you are going to sell information you will do so to the highest bidder, and Murdoch’s empire has deeper pockets than the others. I have no doubt that all the red top tabloids behave in the same way – hence they know when public personalities are going to be arrested in the early hours of the morning, but what with the fragrant Mrs Brooks riding the same police horse as Cameron, a certain senior police officer resigning from the police service and within weeks writing a column for a Murdoch newspaper on a regular basis – they look moe foetid than the rest. And shouldn’t the Prime Minister choose his friends with more care? Mrs Brooks, nee Wade has spent the night in a police cell  before now…

          • Holly

            Mrs Brooks married Mr Brooks who was a friend of Cameron’s for decades before she came along. So the reality is that Cameron is a friend of Mr Brooks who Miss Wade married, not the other way around.
            Cameron, of course should have told Mr Brooks not to marry Miss Wade, just in case he ever became PM.

          • AlanGiles

            Well, the fact is as Wade she was arrested for assaulting her former husband before she married Brooks. Obviously Cameron is not responsible for who his friends marry, but he could keep his distance, and should have done considering this woman’s reputation.

          • Bill Lockhart

            No charge was ever brought. I didn’t realise that in this country being arrested on suspicion of a crime gives someone a “reputation”.  In that case the Labour party has a “reputation” for its leaders being interviewed under caution by the police.

          • Holly

            A case of you can come, but don’t bring the wife?
            Or I’m not talking to you because of who you married…Makes perfect sense.
            Seems a bit harsh after 30 yrs 

          • AlanGiles

            Bill and Holly, whether or not the allegations of husband-bashing were true, the fact is this woman has been mired in tabloid disgrace for a decade. When she launched her crusade against paedophiles in the NoTW, for example, she forgot to tell her readers that Paediatricians are not the same as paedophiles – she published the name of one of the former who had to leave their home to escape a baying mob. Perhaps not a lot goes on in the rain under that rat’s nest of hair, but for years her role in News International has been in question. It is of course an extraordinary coincidence (no more than that I am sure) that as more arrests were made, Ms Brooks decided to conceive a child by AI.

            To answer you Holly, yes if I were PM I would not wish to associate myself with this woman, and if her husband took offence at that, then, sorry but Cameron has a position to maintain and associating with the spouse of a cheap tabloid scandal sheet ex-editor does not look good.

          • bustop


            I could not agree more with your point about the evidence at the Leveson Inquiry. 
            I would go further in that I question the whole process and specifically the timing of it. It simply should not have happened at all while there were on-going investigations that may lead to criminal charges. 
            If Camerons friends avoid court because of the inquiry – he started – it will be a national disgrace and one that should never be forgotten.
            Sadly I see it might happen, and I will not hold my breath waiting for Labour to condemn it. 

          • Holly

            ‘If Cameron’s friends avoid court’…It will not be because they are friends of Cameron, or because of the Leveson inquiry, it will be because the police bod gave evidence that implied guilt. Without any charges made against anyone, or any trial…So in my opinion it is the police who don’t want this anywhere near a courtroom.
            I then have to ask myself, is that been driven by the police or the politicians, who also fear what could ‘come out’ of any future trial?? The police bods already been corruptible to begin withIt absolutely stinks to high heaven.

  • treborc


    Premier league stuff, Cruddas it was Bluster……

  • Does all this  outrage mean labour are going to stop blocking reform of party funding ?

    • Daniel Speight

       And yet it was the Tories under orders from Cameron who wrecked the most recent attempt.

  • Dave

    All we need is a few satsumas and some rent boys and we are back in the good old days of tory sleaze.

    • AlanGiles

      Don’t forget the stockings, suspenders and football shirts!


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