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Archbishop of Canterbury backs Robin Hood Tax

November 2, 2011 3:15 pm

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  • Anonymous

    Fascinating dynamics which have unfolded since the start of the Occupy London protests, apparently between the state, church, establishment, financial institutions and ordinary people just wanting voices and actions to be heard.

    It almost seems like a power struggle between different rungs of the “establishment” which most of us are unaware of what goes on or what is discussed behind the scenes.

    Personally, I have felt extremely glad about the Archbiship RW’s eloquent and compelling arguments made over the past 2 years; I believe it is partially the role of churches and faith groups to speak up on behalf of the conditions of ordinary people,social inequalities and injustice.

    We need many more of these public figures and great thinkers to stand on the side of people,
    not co orporate big business and vested interests which seems to survive in spite of all that people are going through….

    It’s a very long time coming in my view, since we have had nigh on about 30 years of this
    boom and bust greed fuelled culture and as Ed M alluded to-”predatory” business practices,
    which also applies to global co orporatism and aggressive forms of capitalism.

    A radical shake up is needed to regulate unweildy markets and unethical practices; disseminate its power and create a more balanced  picture of growing economies that actually involve communities and benefit innovation at a more humble level, eg local small businesses, artisan craftspeople,
    regenerating small towns and villages through concepts like Co Ops and credit unions etc.

    But vitally, money and resources are also needed to sustain vital frontline and community services.

    I believe that the vast majority of the public would support wholeheartedly the idea of a fractional transaction tax on the big powerful financial companies and businesses/co orporate world.
    This could generate billions, and yet be a mere dent in the profits of already grossly overloaded huge companies.Also, look at the recent reports on pay rises for big business managers by comparison to the pain other workers are and will be suffering?

    There is simply no excuse or justification, and it may take peaceful civil movements to shake up the status quo and prick the consciences of those who seem very cut off and out of touch with ordinary people’s living standards, and job/educational prospects for the young.

    There does seem to be a wider sense of social injustice growing, despite years of complacency perhaps.

    People themselves need to get on board and add to the arguments and forum for ideas.

    Thankyou, Jo.

    • Anonymous

      PS I don’t blame individual workers, like those working in banks and financial institutions;
      I think they can have a tough time too working in highly pressurized roles.

      But perhaps in many companies,(probably not all)- the culture and hierarchy of power in the system needs to change.

      For example- huge gaps in salaries across society are morally indefensible in the current climate, and when public service workers, and other low paid workers are taking a huge hit in job cuts and pension reductions.

      Also, a big issue I believe is the increasing lack of access to higher education and massively rising unemployment, especially affecting the young/future generation.

      How can all this be harnessed and brought together, eg creating cross consensus on possible solutions?

      Jo

      • GuyM

        Just for reference, exactly how many companies have you worked in at any sort of high level that gives you the experience to comment on “many companies” having problems with culture and hierarchy of power?

    • GuyM

      I wonder if the public would support such a tax if they knew that the banks will simply pass the tax loss onto them in increased charges and fees.

      All it ends up being is a tax on bank customers, not a tax on bank profits.

      Apart from that, the rest of your post looks like some manifesto for a marxist make believe land.

  • charles.ward

    I wonder if the Observer will count him as another “leading economist”.

    • Anonymous

      I think I recall he wrote an excellent piece in the New Statesman not long ago.

      I believe a broad perspective is needed in response to complex problems;
      eg from disciplines such as sociology, anthropology, economics, philosophy,
      psychology, and theology.

      There are humanitarian aspects of economics.

      • Anonymous

        As this whole debate raises fundamental issues about values and ethics, humanitarian principles, democratic involvement etc; I believe it is entirely appropriate for the church/faith groups/faith leaders to be involved as much as wider dialogue with all of the above, and more.

        When we see the turmoil that is happening due to the actions of global markets upon ordinary people and communities; it’s about time philosophical questions are asked, but more importantly, that people have a voice, and have public figures speaking on their behalf.
        The churches’ role is to reinforce principles of social justice and fairness,
        aspects of community, looking out for one’s neighbor etc.
        In other words- values- something some would argue have become eroded.
        It’s that “cohesion” and social glue which seems to have been coming apart,
        leading to confusion and isolation for many; eg when communities break down or are under great strain.

        For the past 30 years we have seen a massive rise in a culture of individualism, selfishness and greed; proliferation of power of huge co orporate businesses and financial institutions that acts in its own interests alone, and governments seem beholden to.Who or what is running the show?

        What happens when the balance of money and vested interests skews against people’s working lives and quality of life? 

        Who is going to stand up and be counted- and who or what can make a difference?

        I would say- many.But not enough has been done or said on these issues; now it’s reached crisis point- it’s time for action and dialogue.
        More especially- a public voice.

        Jo

  • Anonymous

    Just a few points from the EU report:

    - Tobin tax will raise £55bn, 70% from London. This will be paid to the EU who will decide what to do with it. So the EU has tax raising powers it currently doesn’t have.

    - The report estimates the impact will be a 1.7% REDUCTION in GDP across the EU, thus tax revenues will FALL from current levels after the Tobin tax is implemented.

    - the report talks about ‘dislocation’ i.e. Banks etc based in the EU will relocate to locations where there is no FTT.

    Also:

    - this tax will be passed on to customers as are all others

    - the CofE doesn’t pay tax itself as far as I can see.

    Maybe Dr Williams should stick to theology.

    • Anonymous

      Geedee0520,

      I do recall there is a specific site about the “Robin Hood Tax” when it was first launched; also much on Youtube, eg presentations from economists and public figures.
      Many have strongly endorsed, including I think recently, B.Gates of Microsoft?

      Personally I think it’s a brilliant concept, and that where there’s a will there’s a way, considering the levels of innovation that already exist in financial markets, and the lengths they appear to go to to make things work to their advantage.
      (Including big business and major global co orporations.)

      They probably argue against because they want to protect their own narrow interests, not thinking about any greater “public good.”

      Jo

      • Anonymous

        ‘It’s a brilliant concept’

        Did you actually read what the EU report said? LESS tax take. So less money for ‘frontline’ etc.

        Plus – at least 100,000 jobs moved from London to Somewhere, but they are not public sector so who cares?

  • The Grunt

    ‘Apart from that, the rest of your post looks like some manifesto for a marxist make believe land.’

    This is the result of indiscriminately cutting public services.  You cut the pest control service and look what happens.

    • GuyM

      A bit harsh suggesting pest control would have dealt with Joanne and her views, maybe you should apologise to her?

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    I do not regard Rowan Williams as representative.  I very much hope he is the last example of his whining quasi-Marxist band of travellers to infest the Church of England.  I will certainly be delighted when he is gone, hopefully with some ignominy to mark the damage his sort of thinking has done to the Church since ArchBishop Fisher held the post.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Quasi-marxist? Bizarre….you really do appear to be showing your true right wing colours though, Jaime. Fisher was a Freemason who spoent most of his time dealing with Canon Law and left very little mark on the church – he was a person of his time and would hardly have had much of any relevance to say today.

      I don’t always agree with Rowan Williams but I’d say its quite obvious that the behaviour of the banking industry has been unacceptable.

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        Mike,

        Geoffrey Fisher was a true leader and thinker, and the fact that he chose to stay out of politics is to my mind a mark of the man.  The Church should not be involved in politics, which is where Rowan Williams has gone so badly wrong.  Geoffrey Fisher inherited from William Temple a strong predisposition towards Christian Socialism, and actively pushed that agenda as a doctrine without getting into politics.  His own son Frank came to Chile as a guest of my father’s mission in 1972 or early 73 (it preceded Pinochet) and stayed in our house for a couple of months.  He was a teacher and taught English in a local barrio school.  He taught me conkers.

        On a mathematical basis, you could try a correlation between weekly attendances and ABCs.  You’d find there was a distinct correlation between Fisher: highest attendances in the 20th century, and Williams: lowest attendances.

        I know you’ve left the Church.  I haven’t.  I do believe that my views on this have some relevance.

        As to the quasi-Marxist:  well, that’s true.  By his own admission, and also by the fact that he was closely monitored in the 70s as being a founding member of the Jubilee Group.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

    Nationalise the lot of them without compensation

    • GuyM

      So you’d wipe billions out of pension funds?

      How is that going to work out do you think?

  • Anonymous

    Would be interested to hear more about the “Jarrow” style marches happening today from north to south of England, ?demanding a “jobs fund” and reinstatement of EMA for young people?

    Also, reports of the AB of York,(John S,) reiterating the message of the protestors?

    I’d like to see much more of this joined up thinking and cross campaigning for a common cause.

    This is surely about securing better conditions for the people, tackling gross inequalities in incomes, and not vested interests or huge financial power bases weilding influence, even over governments?

    There needs to be collective responsibility, for example,
    greater regulation of casino style capitalism, and examples like the Tobin tax for fairer distribution
    and reponsible banking practices; not simply left to the vagaries of the market or “nudge theories.”

    Jo 

    • Anonymous

      Just found excellent article: 

      “Young, politicised and jobless: the new Jarrow marchers have arrived;”

      Guardian,(ZW) 4/11.

      There is also good coverage elsewhere, and heard on BBC radio today.

      Thankyou, Jo.

  • Anonymous

    I have relatives and friends past and present who own businesses, work in senior positions in banks,(eg marketing role;)and have worked for big
    co orporations and companies.

    I also lived in London in the 80′s and 90′s and observed the massive “yuppification” of certain roles, simultaneously with deepening social inequalities which became stark and visible on the streets.

    My partner had many friends at the time who worked as very senior accountants, stockbrokers and in marketing for private companies.
    They were high pressure roles, extremely well paid, and very stressful working conditions.I think some of them did it just for the exhorbitant salaries, but tended to move on quickly between companies.

    There was a often a great feeling of insecurity and a “dog eat dog” mentality; a very macho culture in the money markets.
    These guys and gals are clearly high fliers, but even some of them are critical of the whole system.

    N.Leeson was interviewed on N’Night recently and was extremly critical of the whole set up; eg culture of the banking industry. 

    I do not see much of this culture as particularly sustainable or ethical in the current global crisis.It is economic, but has a knock on humanitarian effect;
    and practices need to change.

    As for my own working experience, yes- I certainly have worked in a management capacity and feel well entitled to comment.

    We all have eyes and ears, and are not confined to a limited sphere of experience.There is also a wealth of information out there to read and reflect upon.

    J

    • GuyM

      Working in a “management capacity” really doesn’t cut it with regard to reference to private sector corporates if your management experience is public sector.

      I’ve worked in the private sector in management or consultancy positions in the following verticals:

      Retail, Telecommunications, Manufacturing, Commodities, Financial Services, Pharma, High-Tech, Property, Advertising, Engineering, Construction, Facilities Management, Travel & Leisure, Publishing etc.

      Those roles client side, agency and consultancy (both firm and freelance), both multinational and SME.

      The companies cultures have varied from very Americanised, French, Asian and the old style British culture which slowly changed over the last 20 years or so.

      On top of that I did over a year of consultancy for the NHS in the public sector.

      After all of that experience, which is not bragging by the way, the following is evident to me…

      There is NO cultural norm, NO hierarchical norm, private sector workers do not work with insecurity fears, they are not institutionally abused by management. Management is not “stupid” nor abusive and certainly not a block on the aspirations of those below them.

      You simply can not spend a career in the public sector (as a health care professional as well) and plaster a catch all criticism about private sector cultures and hierarchies needing to change… and throw in a back up of knowing “friends” in the private sector as if that validates an opinion.

      Sure everyone is entitled to an opinion and for that opinion to be heard, but just as I might have a view about the best way to treat a heart attack, a qualified GP would be peeved if anyone treated my view as equal to his.

      In this case your view is your view, so do express it, but with little if any first hand experience throwing such strong criticism at something you know little about and which has little or no truth to it doesn’t make you look very clever.

      It does of course make you look the epitome of an anti-private sector Labour activist……

  • The Grunt

    I find it difficult to comprehend.  The retail parts of the big banks are outperforming the investment parts, apparently.  Why are people still using these big banks?  None of them are paying much UK tax because of offsetting against their results in recent years.  Why do people persist with them?  It’s possible to have your main accounts with the Co-op and also use for savings credit unions (some of which are backed by the Co-op) and Triodos.  If you haven’t done so, why not move your account?  If you favour mutualisation, again why not take this action (again the Britannia, the last large mutual building society works with the Co-op) and Co-op?  Both the RAC and the AA are in the hands of private equity companies, so why not use the Co-op (although it outsources its recovery).  The solution is in our hands.

    • GuyM

      Because I and others don’t want to use the co-op or savings unions?

      I favour multinational capitalism and am happy to invest in it, if you favour something else then you are free to choose of course.

      However the UK has many like me and many like you, expecting a mass rush from the main banks is naive given 40% or so of the population is Tory minded and hence largely at home with capitalism.

      Also of course the middle classes don’t really have an historic link with either the co-op or credit unions.

      I have no Co-Op supermarkets near me in Surrey (nor Morrisons either), but a lot of Waitrose, M&S Food, Sainsbury and the usual Tesco. It is a completely different cultural dynamic.

      • Jaime T

        Why would anyone want to use a savings union?  Any spare money I have is removed from the financial system entirely, and invested into physical assets that I control myself.  I don’t want anyone else at all to have some encumbrance on my savings.  The sole exception is 200 shares in Friends’ Provident which I had from a demutualised life insurance policy, which since flotation appear to have largely lost any value they ever had.  I keep them as they are effectively worthless and remind me that letting others manage your money is a very foolish thing.

      • The Grunt

        Actually, I wasn’t talking to you.  You are an interloper here, nay intrusive.  You are self-evidently not Labour-minded.  We don’t really care what you or your ilk think.  If only 40% banked with the big banks, you would be in a right pickle, so let’s all leave Mr Self-regarding on his own with his like.

      • The Grunt
    • Anonymous

      Hi Dave (The Grunt;)
      I saw this yesterday, and thought of great note:

      “We are paid too much, bankers confess in St Paul’s survey…..
      as politicians shift ground on high earners,
      city workers admit public sector gets raw deal.”

      Indy, 6/11.

      Jo

  • Anonymous

    There is a wider movement out there Guy, in case you hadn’t noticed.

    These issues are being aired.

    These people speaking out, here and abroad,
    are likely to come from a wide range of backgrounds, including people from the private sector.

    Did you see ex trader N.Leeson being interviewed on N’night very recently?

    He had a lot to say about banking/financial institutions’ culture and practice, and implied much of it went against the public interest, and gave the impression of a self sealed bubble and power base. 

    Also, I don’t buy into this either/or mentalitiy re public/private sector practice; management roles and any other roles can be respected on all sides.
    They are just different, that’s all- and serve different functions.

    If ever you want a job description of what primary care practioners actually do, working in socially deprived areas, I’d be happy to oblige.

    Or managing a psychiatric ward with acutely ill adults; 
    running a clinic, dealing with acute child protection work;
    these are just a few of the areas many of us work in and have done for many years.
    Most people wouldn’t know what had hit them.

    And yet now, public service and frontline workers are being spoken about in derogatory and misleading terms, as if we are all somehow an homogenous and unidentifiable group.

    It is not public service workers that have got us into this financial deficit/mess.

    I am happy to respond Guy, but only genuine posts, and in good faith- not any kind of point scoring.

    Thanks, Jo.

    • GuyM

      There are a few hundred people in camps, with a mixed set of arguments and requirements.

      As compared to the 10 million who voted Tory in 2010.

      As to the private sector/public sector being different, it’s you who imply it in your statements. If the private sector need to change due to hierarchy and culture but not the public then surely that means they are different.

      And seriously unless you have worked across a myriad of organisational types, different hierarchical structures and cultures youa re in no position to state the majority need to change.

      The private sector functions very well thanks and employs far far more people than the public sector does or ever will.

      Public Health care is light years away from trading globally in some of the verticals I’ve worked in, it really is.

      And my experience of the NHs was of  afractured, badly managed organisation with duplication of structure and poor purchasing and project control. The endless public sector IT disasters maybe means your sector needs to look at itself as well.

      In fact when I went public with my concerns that billions were being wasted by the last Labour government the head of the NHS programme sent me a lovely letter threatening me with legal action if I said so much as another word of the disaster in progress.

      As I said Jo, I’d not begin to lecture you on running a healthcare department, but really to assume a public sector organisation is anything representative of private sector business across the many companies large and small is misguided in the extreme.

  • The Grunt

    ‘Why would anyone want to use a savings union?’
    To make one’s savings do ‘socially useful’ work.  I don’t want to sit on gold or real estate.  I hope that many others take the same view.  I’m comfortable.  I don’t need to sit on gold or real estate.  My money has better things to do.

    • GuyM

      The best thing my money can do for me, from an investment point of view, is make me more money whilst remaining reasonably secure

  • Anonymous

    I didn’t say it was directly comparable at any point; I said different organizations have different roles and functions.
    It is pointless comparing the two.

    I would add though that public service workers appear to be devalued and taking much of the current hit post deficit crisis.
    Equally I have total sympathy for private sector workers who may have have very poor working conditions or meagre pension arrangements.

    It should not be a race to the bottom; it should be about raising standards for all. 

    This whole debate is not about private versus public sector, it is about who or what is responsible for the global financial crisis over time; and what factors can be identified to work out possible constructive solutions.

    I don’t think blame should be pointed towards individual workers in the financial sector, but the large scale culture of some organizations.(Not all.)

    This is a topic which has been covered across mainstream media and is well known; it is not a minority view.

    Could I ask what is/was your role?
    I seem to recall you described being an IT manager. 

    I wouldn’t presume anything about your role Guy; equally I’d expect the same from you and others about frontline practioners in health and social care.

    Thankyou.

    Jo

    • GuyM

      My role was lead consultant on a section of the NPfIT programme across England.

      The whole programme was badly conceived, badly designed, badly procured, badly managed and badly financially controlled.

      Large chunks of it simply were never going to work in a month of Sundays.

      the “national spine” was a walking talking disaster of a way to waste billions of public money.

      But Labour politicians, civil servants who I doubt knew much about IT other than how to turn their desktops on and consultancy firms on T&M contracts all mixed together to destroy billions of public funding.

      The NHS itself was beyond belief. Every PCT and SHA refused to share lists of employees, key decision makers, even trust board members, so it was impossible for the programme to even communicate the work about the NHS to gain feedback.

      I have never in 15 years seen such an unholy mess as I witnessed during that year of my career.

  • Anonymous

    “The Occupy movements are the realists, not Europe’s ruling elites;”

    John Gray, Guardian, 15/11.

    See also ensuing comments/blogs- good debate on capitalism/ethics.

    Cheers, Jo.

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