Sunday shows: Inflation-level pay rises in public sector “unaffordable”, Nandy says

Sophy Ridge on Sunday

Shadow Levelling Up Secretary Lisa Nandy told viewers this morning that pay rises for public sector workers that would match or “bust” inflation are unaffordable “because of 12 years of Tory government” and the handling of the economy by Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng.

• Asked whether public sector pay rises that would match or “bust” inflation are “unaffordable”: “They’re unaffordable because of 12 years of Tory government and 44 days in which Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng crashed the economy.”
• On public sector and rail strikes: “We’re in this position because ministers have been refusing to meet with workforces for some considerable time.”
• Pushed on whether inflation-matching pay rises, including the pay demand made by nurses, are unaffordable: “The truth is I don’t know. The government hasn’t opened the books to us… It would be absurd for me to try and conduct those negotiations live on air.”
• Asked whether she will join a picket line with nurses: “I’m not planning to go down to the picket line because when I spoke to members of the RCN and to the general secretary of UNISON they left me in no doubt that where they want me is in parliament doing my job so that they can do theirs.”
• Asked whether Labour would like to see immigration figures come down: “Very high levels of immigration are unsustainable because we haven’t invested in our young people.”
• She added: “We believe in a points-based immigration system, that’s what we introduced when we were in government, but we want to align that much more closely to skills so that we first invest in our young people so that they’re able to get the jobs.”
• Asked why Matt Hancock has done so well in I’m a Celebrity: “I don’t know, but I think he should be at work. He’s still being paid to be an MP… He needs to get out of that jungle and get back to work.”

Mark Harper warned that “we’re facing a very difficult economic situation”. He said “we want to make sure people have pay rises” that are “affordable” and argued that “inflation-matching or busting pay rises are unaffordable”.

The Transport Secretary told viewers that the summer was “difficult” but described the government as one that is “grown up and grips the issues people are concerned about and gets on with governing”.

Asked whether Matt Hancock should have the whip restored, he said MPs should not be taking part in reality television programmes. “If you’re an MP and parliament is sitting, I think your job is to be representing your constituents,” he said.

Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg

Nandy said she would not be joining striking nurses on the picket line and argued that workers want the Labour Party to “fight their corner” and that the “best way” to do that is to be in parliament “putting the pressure on government ministers”.

• On whether public sector workers would be better paid under Labour: “Yes, I believe that they would. Not just because we would treat them as partners as the Welsh Labour government has been doing… but also because we have a plan to grow the economy and make sure that that money goes back into people’s pockets.”
• Asked whether Labour would give pay rises matching inflation: “The key is to bring inflation down, so that you’re not continually watching inflation and the cost of living outstripping what people are earning.”
• Pressed on whether Labour would give pay rises matching inflation: “Right now it would be absurd for me to open a negotiation live on television. We haven’t been invited into the negotiations. We haven’t had the books opened to us by Mark Harper or by [Health Secretary] Steven Barclay.”
• Pressed again: “We want to see people paid enough money to live on and rewarded fairly for the contribution they make. But what you’re asking me is not would we match inflation, you’re asking me to commit to a specific number without having been invited in to the negotiations and seeing the books.”
• On what percentage pay rise Labour would support: “I would have to pluck it out of thin air, because we haven’t seen the books… and so it’s not possible for me to tell you what’s affordable.”
• On whether she will join nurses on the picket line: “I’m not going to be on the picket line. I’m going to be in parliament, because having met with nurses just a couple of days ago – representatives from the Royal College of Nursing and from UNISON – they’ve been absolutely clear with us that they want us to fight their corner, and we will, and they want us to go into parliament and do our job so they can do theirs.”
• On union leaders wanting to see Labour MPs on picket lines: “What those workers want most of all is for us to go and fight their corner and make sure that they get the funding and support into their services and into their pay packets that they deserve and, at the moment, the best way to do that is for us to be in parliament and putting the pressure on government ministers.”
• On how many houses a Labour government would build: “We haven’t set a number on that at the moment, although we are planning to do that in advance of the general election.”
• Pressed on how many houses Labour would look to build each year: “There is a target, I’m not sure if it still exists because it’s hard to keep track with this government. It was scrapped and then returned and then scrapped again. But there has been a long-standing target to build 300,000 new homes a year in Britain because of the scale of the crisis we’ve got… We’ve got to have a large-scale house building programme.”
• On whether Labour would scrap Right to Buy: “I’ve always believed in the Right to Buy and the right to buy your own home… But the problem with Right to Buy is that the money was never put back into the system, so every time a home was sold it was lost from the housing stock. That’s completely wrong. And I agree with Michael Gove, actually, who said earlier this year that Right to Buy is sustainable if you replace homes like for like. So we’ll see what’s affordable under the next Labour government, but we support the principle. What we don’t support is the deliberate vandalism of our social housing stock.”
• On her and Keir Starmer’s changed stances on freedom of movement: “I’ve always believed in freedom of movement, but only if it’s allied to a strong investment in the skills and the opportunities for young people here in Britain. So we haven’t changed our position in that respect.”
• Pressed on the change in their stances: “What’s the route to freedom of movement? Essentially applying to rejoin the European Union in one form or another. That’s just not on the table… What we should be doing is building a proper immigration system that looks at labour shortages, that invests in the skills of our young people first and then invites immigrants to Britain to fill those gaps and make a significant contribution.”

On the ongoing rail strikes, TUC general secretary Frances O’Grady said: “What the unions need to know is whether the companies have authority to do a deal. Because we know that every train-operating company has a clause in its contract written by the government on dispute handling, but the unions don’t know what’s in it and they don’t know whether the companies have authority, have been empowered to actually genuinely, in good faith, negotiate a deal. So what we’re hoping for from Mark Harper is a letter to the unions setting that out.”

Commenting following Harper’s interview, she added: “We’re seeing this across the piece, with the government pointing the finger at independent review bodies and train-operating companies. But it feels like the government is pulling the strings, and indeed that is what employers in the rail industry told us.”

O’Grady said the suggestion that nurses – a “predominantly female profession” – can accept another real-terms cut to their wages feels “incredibly patronising”, adding: “The tone from government, I have to say, in refusing to meet union leaders to negotiate feels incredibly patronising to women – and wrong.”

Harper said negotiations on the rail strikes are “absolutely” between the trade unions and the train-operating companies and Network Rail, adding: “I’m not getting involved in those detailed negotiations, but I do think I have a responsibility to encourage and help the two sides in those negotiations to reach a conclusion.”

He said: “We’re trying to modernise how the workforce operates and the detail of how those rail companies operate.” He argued that an agreement between the trade unions and the companies would “[free] up financial savings” that could be shared between the taxpayer and the workers.

On allegations that the government has been holding back the train companies from negotiating, he said: “I haven’t blocked anything.” Pressed on whether he is going to change the companies’ mandate to negotiate, he said the companies and Network Rail “will have the ability to reach a deal”, but added: “We have to be able to have that reform package negotiated, because it’s only that that throws up the savings.”