Interview: TUC general secretary Paul Nowak on delivering for workers, threat of Farage and achieving work-life balance

The general secretary of the TUC has urged the government to do more to deliver on the change promised at the general election – or risk people becoming disillusioned with mainstream politics.

In an exclusive interview with LabourList as the TUC Congress meets in Brighton, Paul Nowak also called on the government to protect public services from cuts with tax hikes on high earners and to stand firm on attempts to water down the Employment Rights Bill.

Nowak said: “People voted for change – that was the one word that was on the front of the manifesto. I think, for a lot of people, change still feels like a slogan rather than the lived reality.

“That’s not to say the government hasn’t done anything during the course of the last year. There’s been loads of really important things, including at the Budget – we saw that massive investment in public services and infrastructure. We’ve now got an industrial strategy worthy of the name and the practical example of that in action – thousands of jobs saved at British Steel, our railways coming back into public ownership and obviously the Employment Rights Act.

“But I think it is fair to say, for a lot of people, they haven’t felt the change in their pockets and they haven’t seen the change in their public services – and I think there’s a real danger at this point where people could get disillusioned with mainstream politics.

“The year 2025 had to be the year of delivery for the government, and I think at this Congress, we’re going to send the message that every decision the government takes going forward, it must show it’s on the side of working people, their families and communities.”

‘Opportunities for workers to prove there is value in union membership’

Nowak described the Employment Rights Bill as the “biggest upgrade of workers’ and union rights in a generation” and said he is “confident but not complacent” that the government would deliver on the bill in full.

“It’s a much-needed upgrade that brings us much more into the European mainstream. I’ve been a union activist for 35 years and no government of any political persuasion has repealed anti-union legislation in that time.”

He said that the reforms in the bill could also help unlock a new era in union membership, with new rights in access to the workplace, reaching workers digitally and simplifying the union recognition procedure.

“I think that gives us an opportunity to get on a level playing field. It won’t happen by accident, unions will have to put the resource in, but these are opportunities for unions to prove to workers that there is value in union membership and that unions can make a difference.”

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Nowak hit out at Liberal Democrat and Conservative members of the House of Lords who are attempting to water down elements of the bill and said: “It’s a really important period between now and Royal Assent that the government does push back on those unelected peers, in some cases hereditary peers, voting against improvements in workers’ rights for millions of people.

“These are the same people who pushed back against the introduction of the minimum wage a quarter of a century ago – and every time the minimum wage goes up every year, they moan that it’s unsustainable and they can’t afford it. I think in a few years’ time, people will say it was crazy that low paid women working for outsourced companies and public services didn’t get sick pay from day one.”

He said that the bill will not only boost the incomes and rights of workers, but also give the government a big dividing line between them and Nigel Farage.

“Farage says he stands up for working people and yet he and all the other Reform MPs voted against the Employment Rights Bill every single time in Parliament. This is an opportunity for the government to demonstrate to working people that they are on their side.

“There will be some loud voices in the employers’ lobby and some loud voices in the right wing press, in the Lords and in the Commons, pushing back against the government – they just need to stay the course, deliver the bill in full and let’s get this into affecting workplaces as quickly as possible.”

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‘No chance of Reform genuinely speaking on behalf of working people’

The TUC’s annual conference comes just as Reform UK end their conference in Birmingham. Nowak accused Nigel Farage and his party of “working class cosplay” and said Reform are “not interested in representing union members”.

“Nigel Farage is about representing the interests of the very wealthiest in this country. I don’t think there’s any chance of Reform genuinely speaking on behalf of working people.

“Our job at the TUC is not to tell working class people they’ve got their vote wrong, because they voted Reform or to condescend to them. People are grown ups and they can cast their vote in exactly the way that they want, but I think our job is to expose the gap between the reality and rhetoric around Reform.

“He [Farage] says he  stands up for British industry – cheeky sod was there with his union placards outside British Steel and then hangs on the coattails of Donald Trump, whose tariffs placed at risk those jobs in steel and in the automotive and other industries.”

Nowak said that large numbers of people are questioning whether mainstream politics is delivering for them, but tackling the cost of living would go a long way in addressing that sentiment.

“If people feel that you can go pick up the phone and get a doctor’s appointment, that will make a massive difference. If the kid’s school is being rebuilt, that will make a massive difference. If the trains are running on time and we’ve got a coherent national rail system, that will make a massive difference.”

READ MORE: Voters will ‘reward’ taxes on wealth, gambling and bank profits, TUC poll

‘Sea change in union relationship with government under Labour’

Despite strike action in Birmingham and among resident doctors, Nowak said that the relationship between trade unions and the government is “fundamentally different” than it was 14 months ago.

“The internal psychodrama in the Tory Party meant they weren’t interested in engaging with unions or anybody else seriously. Practically, it meant that we had disputes of hundreds of thousands of public sector workers happening all over the country and the government refusing to engage and refusing to reach a reasonable settlement.

“That’s been fundamentally different with this government. So I think whether it’s industrial strategy, the work around clean energy, resolving those outstanding public sector disputes, there has been a sea change in the relationship with government.”

Nowak, however, conceded that the relationship is not perfect, highlighting the need for a strategic conversation around the recruitment and retention crisis in the public sector, along with issues around workload, flexible working and deploying new technology in the workplace.

“My plea to the government would be let’s get around the table and have that more strategic conversation that needs to take place to solve some of these deep-rooted problems.”

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‘Next election probably between Labour and Farage’

Amid the prospect of Unite disaffiliating from Labour and a splintering of the left with the Greens and Jeremy Corbyn’s new party, Nowak acknowledges the trade union movement’s shared history with Labour.

“I think that workers do better under a Labour government – and particularly one that works closely with unions.

“Decisions about which parties unions do or do not support will be taken by those unions and by their members, most importantly. I have to say that I am less interested in new parties emerging – we’ve got a Labour government with four years left of its mandate. Let’s make sure that government delivers the change they set out to the British public.

“Any sensible reading of the opinion polls would suggest that the next election, and things can change a lot in the next four years, it’s not going to be a choice between Zack Polanski, Zarah Sultana, Jeremy Corbyn and a Labour government. It’s probably going to be a Labour government and a Nigel Farage-led Reform and maybe a rump of the right-wing of the Tory Party. Anybody who thinks that Nigel Farage, Robert Jenrick, Kemi Badenock or Richard Tice are going to deliver for working people have got their head in the clouds.”

READ MORE: Could Andrea Egan shatter Unison’s cosy relationship with Labour?

Nowak on achieving a work-life balance

Outside of his role as general secretary of the TUC, Nowak has a love of music, playing guitar and performing at gigs. So how does the man representing a federation of Britain’s largest and most influential trade unions strive for a work-life balance?

“First of all, I’m much more nervous getting up with my guitar than I am getting up on a picket line or a union conference, partly because it’s well outside of my comfort zone.

“Other union general secretaries have their own ways of finding work-life balance – some people waste their time on golf courses, that doesn’t appeal to me at all.

“I love my job, and it is a privilege to do my job, but being the general secretary of the TUC isn’t me in total. Whether it’s spending time with family, whether it’s playing music, whether it’s taking my canal boat out (called Northern Jem) – that’s what life is about, and a rounded life is what we want for our members as well.”

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Walter Citrine, Nowak’s labour movement ‘hero’

Reflecting on the vibrant trade union history, Nowak also revealed his “hero” of the labour movement – one of his predecessors as TUC general secretary, Walter Citrine, who he has a portrait of in his office in Congress House.

“He led the TUC through the general strike, but also through the Second World War. He visited the United States to build support for the war effort amongst American unions, and he also went by Royal Navy destroyer to the Soviet Union to keep that link with Soviet unions and the Soviet government at a time when they were bearing the brunt of the war.

“Walter, to me, is one of those people who in his own sort of way played a really important role in holding unions together in making the case for international trades unionism – perhaps more important now than ever – and being pragmatic but also ambitious on behalf of people. That’s what I aspired to be.”

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