The Labour Party is a moral crusade or it is nothing – and now’s the time to fight.

30th January, 2015 4:01 pm

Every day matters. Every single day between now and 7th May, thousands and thousands of Labour activists will be out on the doorsteps fighting this general election one street at a time.

But through the cold and the rain and the dark nights, this fight isn’t just about the Labour Party, it’s about the millions of people we got into politics to represent.

It’s about the people whose doors we knock on – the young woman worried about whether her grandmother can be cared for at home. It’s about the father who fears that his son won’t be able to find a job. And it’s about all those families struggling to make ends meet in an economy that doesn’t work for them under a government that isn’t on their side.

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In fewer than 100 days’ time we have a chance to kick out this awful government once and for all – and the stakes are high. I remember 18 years of Tory government. I remember losing again and again and again. Every single day of those 18 years was another defeat. It is only in government that we can make change happen rather than simply campaign from the side-lines in the hope that change may come.

So we have to win in May. Not for us, not to get our people into power, but for what we can do with that power. Millions and millions of people need us do everything we can to secure a Labour government – we can’t let them down.

It’s a huge task ahead, and a huge responsibility on our shoulders, and no-one understands that better than Ed Miliband.

So the time for navel gazing is over. The Labour Party is a broad church but Ed doesn’t need any more public advice, he needs people to get out on the doorstep and campaign for Labour so that from 8 May he can get on with turning this country around.

Winning organisations are focus relentlessly on doing what they need to win. That’s what we need to do. Look at British cycling, one of the greatest sports teams in the world. At the core of their success is a very strict discipline applied to everybody at every level of the organisation – a relentless focus on winning behaviour.

So that’s what we need now – nothing other than single-minded winning behaviour. Getting on the doorstep, talking to voters, spreading Labour’s message.

If you want a government that will unite our country instead of divide it – get out and campaign for Labour.

If you want an economy that works for everyone, not just a few at the top – then get out and campaign for Labour.

And if you want to secure our NHS, and our vital public services – get out and campaign for Labour.

That’s winning behaviour. That’s what we must do. That’s how we’ll win.

Tessa Jowell is the Labour MP for Dulwich and West Norwood, and a candidate for Mayor of London

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  • MrSauce

    Oh dear.

    • wolfman

      What is the point of you ??

      • Michael Murray

        Surely a rhetorical question?

  • DRbilderburg

    Miliband will obey the same people as Cameron To pretend otherwise is taking the p##s. UK Politics is rotten to the core

    • Michael Murray

      And you would replace democracy with what exactly?

      • BillFrancisOConnor

        No reponse- it’s nihilism I’m afraid.

        • DRbilderburg

          2 parties 1 system Both parties work within the structure of the system
          Cameron and Milliband didn’t get to where they are now because of hard work and talent .It was through connections

          I don’t like either party or the system .It’s corrupt and rotten to the core

          But you keep believing BTW iv’e met with grass root Labour party members They deserve much better than that which is on offer. Salt of the earth

      • RegisteredHere

        What democracy?

        • Michael Murray

          The democracy that voters will be participating in here and not in North Korea.

          • RegisteredHere

            You mean the smallest amount of democracy it’s possible to have and still claim to be a democracy?

            I don’t see either of the major parties clamouring to reform the electoral system, or make their policy red lines and coalition intentions clear to the electorate before the election. We’re effectively being expected to vote blind so that Labour and/or the Conservatives can cook up a coallition deal behind closed doors after the votes are in, when they’ve claimed the bulk of the seats for just 20-25% of the vote.

      • DRbilderburg

        Your Democracy is in name only

        • Michael Murray

          Those who wish to replace democracy with a dictatorship always start by undermining a country’s democratic system.

    • RegisteredHere

      I’m sadly inclined to agree. It’s as if Labour and the Conservatives are zombie parties relying on the core voters returning one of them out of habit and tradition, while trying to paint Green and UKIP voters as loonies and extremists to stop the core vote straygin too far from the corpse.

      • Michael Murray

        You mean UKIP and the Greens aren’t loonies and extremists?

        • RegisteredHere

          To be honest, I don’t think they’re any more loony and extreme than the central consensus held by LibLabCon.

          An entire species held to ransom by a completely arbitrary seventeenth-century financial system propped up by debts that can never be repaid, takes some beating in the loony stakes.

    • Dez

      Which Oxbridge educated millionaire would you like as Prime Minister?

      • DRbilderburg

        Stephen Hawkins

        • Monkey_Bach

          Stephen Hawking? Eeek.

  • arthur brown

    Impassioned stuff Tessa – but what are we supposed to say when the the door opens and the voter says “how are you actually going to do all these wonderful things ?”. It’s all very well having a winning atitude – but you also need a wininng product.

    • Michael Murray

      If you were a member of the Labour Party you’d know what to say. Obviously you are not one of us.

      • Doug Smith

        Ok then, let us in on the secret:

        How will a pro-austerity, pro-TTIP Miliband government deliver “an economy that works for everyone”?

        If you provide a credible answer I’ll vote Labour in May.

        • Michael Murray

          If you don’t vote Labour you’ll have a Tory economy that only works for millionaires.

          • Doug Smith

            You don’t have a credible answer to my question, do you?

            And nor does Tessa Jowell.

            Blairite slogans are no substitute for sound analysis.

          • I think Michael and Tessa are saying something like “OK we know Labour aren’t very inspiring, but if you think we’re bad, the Tories are even worse!”

            Is that going to be enough to inspire the activists, or what should be the activists, to get away from the telly and help out in the campaign?

          • Michael Murray

            Politics always offers a choice not between good and evil but between a greater and a lesser evil.

          • Jack

            In the present situation, that is exactly correct but why should it be like that? If Labour had as its core belief ‘Democratic Socialism’, before it formulated policy the leader could ask “is that what a Socialist would do?” if not, disregard it, there need not be any angst. At the moment, there are too many people within Labour upper echelons who are not Socialists and would run a mile at even the mention of the word. Tessa Jowell said Labour is a “broad church” that’s the problem, it’s full of politicians with no integrity who are not guided by any principled views, just like the Libdems.

          • Doug Smith

            In my area, within which are two of Labour’s top 100 target seats, there are hardly any activists left. The Blairites cleared-out the activist base as they were considered a threat to top-down mania.

            Indeed, I was once an LP activist myself and know from personal, recent, experience that one of those seats has only a handful of pensioner activists.

          • Michael Murray

            You’ll never vote Labour because you aren’t a supporter of Labour.

          • Doug Smith

            Only last year I received a letter telling me that my LP membership had expired.

            I started voting Labour when Harold Wilson was PM and have never, so far, voted for any other party.

            The Blairite cronies (e.g. Jim Murphy) only talk radical when they want your vote. Enough is enough.

            In May I will vote for an anti-austerity, anti-TTIP party.

          • Michael Murray

            You obviously want to see a Tory government re-elected then. That’s good news for those oppressed by the bedroom tax et al.

          • Adam Wisdish

            Who? The Greens? They are anti-austerity, but have £480bn of uncosted spending and that will hit the poorest hardest.

            The TUSC? Don’t make me laugh. Talk about a wasted vote.

            UKIP? Enjoy your privatized NHS.

          • Doug Smith

            I’m still not enjoying Labour’s privatisations of the NHS.

            I should have written “I will vote for any democratic etc.”

            BTW – UKIP’s ‘concern’ for national sovereignty and democracy can be blown clean out of the water by pointing out their support for TTIP.

          • Adam Wisdish

            Labour’s “privatisation” of the NHS is probably one of the most overblown issues in the 21st Century. In one area, we gave the contracts to private companies for a limited period of time and with strict regulation in order to combat falling times and dire service. It was done with the consent of the NHS trusts.

          • treborc1

            I will….

          • CrunchieTime

            Yesterday whilst shopping I bumped into the former secretary of my old CLP. He enquired whether I would consider returning to local politics and our local the branch. I told him that after what Brown & Blair did, I couldn’t see that happening anytime soon as nothing significant had changed within the party under Ed.

            The local branch is virtually non existent.

          • Michael Murray

            So you want another five years of the Tories?

          • CrunchieTime

            If I vote Labour, that’s exactly what I’d be voting for. They’re just not honest enough to wear a blue rosette.

            “Labour, not quite as honest as a Tory” – Great slogan !

          • Michael Murray

            Are you sure you didn’t get your great slogan straight from Tory central office?

          • CrunchieTime

            Playing the man because you cannot counter the argument just makes your case appear all the weaker.

          • Michael Murray

            Are the Tories going to repeal the Bedroom Tax?

          • CrunchieTime

            Which one?

            The Labour bedroom tax or the Tory one?

          • Michael Murray

            The Tory bedroom tax that was retrospective and designed to force the poorest and the disabled to choose between losing their benefits or the home they had lived in for years.

          • CrunchieTime

            Not the Labour one which did exactly the same just so long as it wasn’t a public sector owned property?

          • Michael Murray

            It wasn’t the samke. It wasn’t retrospective and was introduced to stop greedy grasping landlords hiking up rents that they knew would be paid for by housing benefit. Not the same at all.

          • treborc1

            Rubbish god t you can tell them.

          • treborc1

            same with labour bedroom tax it hits people who have to rent in the private market, that’s because labour built sod all social housing,

          • treborc1

            We had a issues over a women only slate and one of those was a parachute, we knew who would win and she did. The whole CLP walked out and resigned now it’s reformed with about nine people.

          • treborc1

            Coming to the Greens with me then.

          • Michael Murray, Doug Smith is obviously a supporter of the labour movement . At one time, support for the movement and support for the Labour Party went hand in hand.

            That’s no longer the case. I know it’s a cliche but it really is the case that the party has left its traditional supporters rather than its former supporters have left the party. If the Labour Party leadership can’t even bring themselves to agree to take back the railway franchises as they naturally expire , when they have clear popular support, it just makes us all wonder what’s the point of it all.

            I’d always though that Ed was real Labour too. But his somewhat less than enthusiastic response to the election of Syriza was very depressing.

          • Michael Murray

            Syria have gone into coalition with a hard right anti Semitic party. Would you like Ed to welcome that?

          • I’d have liked Ed to recognise that there if there was a joint victory it was one that Syriza shared with the Greek and wider European working classes against the forces of reaction and neo-liberalism.

          • Michael Murray

            Oh, come on. You know he can’t do that. The media lackeys would crucify him. And on Holocaust Memorial Day you wanted him to endorse a Greek coalition comprising partly of anti-Semites?

          • Jack

            I seem to remember you suggesting that politics is often a choice between the evil and the lesser evil – just sayin.

          • Michael Murray

            They have chosen the

          • Jack

            You’ve never heard of Golden Dawn then?

          • Michael Murray

            If Labour aren’t in power how’s that going to help the Labour movement?

          • treborc1

            why should we help a party which is not doing what the label says, read your card if you really have one see what it says labour is.

          • Michael Murray

            I have no time for the Blairites but at least they vote Labour unlike the anti-Labour trolls on here who masquerade as disaffected Labour supporters.

          • treborc1

            as you were when you first came on here how good it is to see you come over to the left. hahahaha

          • Michael Murray

            That must have seemed quite logical when you first conceived it.

          • treborc1

            It still does because I remember you when you first came on here.

          • Michael Murray

            I’ve actually been posting on this site long before you.

          • treborc1

            I do not remember you when the site started , with Draper in 2009… What name did you use…

          • Leo McKinstry

            Millions of the lowest paid taken out of income tax altogether. Top tax rate higher than for 12 of the 13 years of Labour rule. Massive falls in unemployment, contrary to all Labour’s gloom-laden predictions. Record low interest rates and inflation. Record number of apprenticeships. Public spending on the NHS, pensions, and education significantly increased.

          • Was that a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party? I don’t know why you are bothering. Even if Labour win you’ll get Tory policies!
            Then the Tories will say that the failures of those policies are down to socialism!

          • Michael Murray

            If you don’t help put Labour in power you’ll never know.

          • Michael Murray

            Such a wonderful record. So why aren’t you twenty five points in the lead and why won’t Dave the Loser appear in the T.V. Debates to tell all the well fed and well housed how well they are doing on the backs of the poor?

          • treborc1

            My god for all that I think is wrong with the labour party, no way do I believe that the Tories are the answer.

        • Adam Wisdish

          I should really know better than to do this, but here goes.

          1) No Bedroom Tax
          2) Much better, NHS Preferred Provider, NHS
          3) Bus market reform
          4) Train market reform, with trains nationalized in Scotland and nationalized companies competing in England and Wales.
          5) Energy price freeze (which, incidentally did allow for prices to FALL) and then reform of the energy market
          6) Representative Senate, no more Lords
          7) NHS out of TTIP – no compromising that, which probably means an end to the treaty as it creates too many problems and other countries will want exceptions for their favorite industries, which undermines the point of the treaty.
          8) Decent and powerful press regulation to prevent the Daily Mail lying and getting away with it
          9) Scrapping “letting fees/administration fees/etc” from private rented accommodation, which is between £50-£200 per person in Student accommodation alone, on top of rent and deposit – with no related expenditure from the letting agent.
          10) Tuition fee reform – TBA.

          • Doug Smith

            Don’t get me started! But anyway, just on the NHS:

            It doesn’t seem that Labour is going to reinstate the Secretary of State’s duty to secure or provide a comprehensive and universal healthcare system. Nor will it scrap the 2012 requirement for all NHS Trusts to become Foundation Trusts.

            Neither will Labour do anything to stop clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) from arranging services they consider “appropriate”.

            The NHS won’t be protected from EU completion law because instead of defining the NHS as a “non-economic” non-marketised public service Labour defines it as a “service of general economic interest”. In fact this formulation makes the NHS more vulnerable than before. This means that the NHS will be wide open to TTIP (the Labour Party wants TTIP).

            At the same time as exposing the state monopoly provision of NHS services to competition law the Labour Party proposes to exempt private monopolies. This is to be done through the innocent-sounding ‘integrated care’ model, This is the preferred model of the insurance industry as it creates conditions where NHS contracts would, for legal purposes, not count as NHS contracts thus entrenching private monopolies.

          • Michael Murray

            Excellent analysis. Did you use to write Michael Foot’ redrafted speeches. speeches? Not going to be much comfort to those who are oppressed by the bedroom tax; are dependent on food banks; or are desperate to be rehoused, though is it?

          • Michael Murray

            Oh, by the way. You don”t seem to be aware that Labour are going to repeal the Health and Social Care Act.

          • Adam Wisdish

            Labour has promised to repeal the Heath and Social Care act of 2012, and return all the powers locals used to have. What it won’t do is have a second £3bn reorganisation, as that would do more harm than good. What we will do is turn the existing structure into one that can combine health and social care, so that in hospital treatment is directly linked to out patient care, and looking after old people properly again.

            The Labour Party doesn’t want the NHS in TTIP, we won’t sign TTIP unless it is exempt. Burnham is our health secretary. Ed Miliband doesn’t have to say it for it to be Labour party policy.

            I have no idea what your last paragraph means. But Labour won’t let that happen.

          • treborc1

            You can go through each one and point out the issues, for example the bedroom tax, but what about the one labour brought in for those who rent privately.

            Railways in Scotland, yes great but why then did Miliband not go with it in England it was put forward .,

            Senate no more Lords god that old one every labour party has had that one.

            If your use the word Freeze and when people warn you of the use of those words but you carry on then sadly you can blame nobody but your self, a freeze does not allow for movements up of down it’s frozen.

            TTIP is wrong on so many fronts just stopping it for the NHS may seem good but for how long until the next new labour or Tories. TTIP is so so wrong.

            Press regulation we will see.

            As for the Mail lying what about the Sun and Miliband thought wearing the tee shirt would make him look what cool.

            The issue is these are for elections but how many of them will stay once you have won, the fact is one which really annoys me is a labour party which brought in tuition g fees knocking it down to win and election but how long before it again goes back up.

          • Adam Wisdish

            Labour had already got a railway policy, so changing it would look like flip-flopping, and our current policy means that we can beat the private companies at their own game. Also, it gives flexibility for local authorities to set up their own rail network that can meet the demands of local people, rather than one centralized one run by policy hacks in Westminster.

            Freeze was a word we used to get our message across. However, the detail of the policy allowed for the price to fall – if you read the detail you will see that clearly.

            Which t-shirt? The feminist one? I applaud Ed for doing that! As for the suns lies, we’ll deal with them too.

            Labour has been espousing these policies for the past four years. Unlike the Greens, Tories and UKIP, we (currently- Blair was different) don’t just change our policy to suit current trends. We stand by our ideology.

          • Michael Murray

            Well said mate. And repeal of the gagging law. But whatever we say we are never going to persuade any of the anti labour trolls on here who masquerade as disaffected Labour supporters from voting for us and kicking the Tories out.

        • Michael Murray

          Through redistribution. But nothing I say would ever convince someone as anti- Labour as you to vote for us.

      • treborc1

        Talk about a change of tune when you first came on her you sounded like a Tory now your a labour party member. . dream world.

        • Michael Murray

          I’ve been a Labour Party member for forty years. How long have you been a Labour Party member?

          • treborc1

            Christ your only eight now.

          • Michael Murray

            Is that really the best you can do?

          • treborc1

            1963 to 2010 …

    • Dez

      ‘but what are we supposed’

      Our austerity is nicer than the Tories?

      • Michael Murray

        You think UNITE have given us one and a half million pounds to increase austerity?

        • treborc1

          Seems that way does it not, because that is what labour are doing is it not.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Labour’s not in government.
            You must take a look next time.

          • treborc1

            They are in Wales…

        • Tommo

          It is what Labour MPs voted for the other day

          • treborc1

            If you look at some of those who voted they will say what they voted for was in fact not to carry with a deficit plan but was more crafty then that.

            Brian Donohoe – MP for Central Ayrshire – revealed that he had received a number of emails from his constituents accusing him of “voting for an austerity budget”, and expressed his dismay following the criticisms made.

            He said: “Despite the SNP claim that we have voted for an ‘austerity’ budget, this is not the case.

            “Tuesday’s vote was actually on balancing the current budget not the overall budget. In other words, day-to-day spending excluding capital investment. This is the same measure of the deficit the Labour Party has been committed to targeting for the last three years.

            How is that for pure spin.

        • SilentHunter

          Isn’t that precisely what Labour ARE doing? . . . only selling it to the electorate as “Vote for us, we want slightly less austerity than the Tories do”.

          Big deal; we want politicians who are going to fight the bankers austerity measures, because that’s what it’s all about . . . keeping the fat cats fed, whilst ordinary working folk suffer.

          The LibLabCon Party are all for austerity, because they are in the pockets of the Corporate Bankers and will do what they’re told to do.

    • Michael Murray

      You may have the best product available but it won’t sell without a committed salesman.

      • treborc1

        same goes for the sale of the political parties.

  • SilentHunter

    Moral crusade?

    The use of the word “crusade” is unfortunate given Labours ILLEGAL WARS!

    And as for “moral” . . .

    Oh sorry! Are we supposed to have forgotten all the hundreds of thousands of deaths that happened because Labour LIED to the country about WMD’s?

    Not least the death of Dr Kelly . . . Eh? Alastair Campbell.

    • wolfman

      You can live in the past If you want, though we shouldn’t ever forget it !!. But Miliband is leader now and I want a compassionate Labour government..

      • Doug Smith

        Miliband backed the disastrous military intervention in Libya – now, like Iraq, a failed state an ISIS hotbed.

        And Miliband argued for a punitive strike against Assad – though that didn’t prevent him from claiming a ‘peace credit’ after Cameron threw in the towel.

        Only yesterday in the Commons Jack Straw refused to admit that WMDs didn’t exist in Iraq.

        Unfortunately it is the Labour elite who live in the past. They refuse to learn.

        • Michael Murray

          Another one fighting the 2005 election.

          • Doug Smith

            I suppose that’s what you’ll say to every voter who reminds you of New Labour’s disaster.

            It may make you feel better but it’s definitely not the way to win many votes.

          • Michael Murray

            We are not fighting the 2015 general election on Labour’s record but on the Tory and Lib Dem stooges record for the past five years.

          • Michael Murray

            Oh? What is? Do tell us as someone who won’t be voting for us.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Last year Doug Smith recommended voting UKIP. On Euro election day itself he said that he ‘should have voted UKIP’. His line was consistently that Labour is too right wing so vote UKIP – which of course doesn’t make any sense.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            You’re a joke! And a bad one at that! Why the hell should we answer your criticisms? You’re not voting Labour no matter what we say- so it’s pointless debating with you.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Well, we’re never going to win your vote.
            Last year on Euro election day you said that you’should have voted UKIP’. As you love them so much why don’t you comment on the Bloggers4UKIP site?

        • RWP

          Such strong contempt during the Blair years saw him re-elected twice.

          • Doug Smith

            In 2001 Blair received fewer votes than Kinnock in 1992. And the Labour vote declined still further in subsequent elections.

            It was the ’97 high-point that secured Blair’s tenure. After ’97, once the New Labour experience had sunk in, Blair became increasingly unpopular.

          • Michelle

            Well said Doug. That should shut up the Blair groupies for a while.

          • Michael Murray

            I loathed Blair for all sorts of reasons but in Oder for Labour to win Labour to win and return Britain to the spirit of 1945 I’m happy to endure any inaccurate insult. Unlike the anti-Labour trolls on here I at least vote Labour.

          • Michelle

            Confused. I was replying to Doug who in turn was replying to RWP. Where do you fit in?

          • Michael Murray

            I”‘m with you if you vote Labour.

          • Michelle

            I’m a labour member and voter.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Last year Doug Smith recommended voting UKIP. On Euro election day itself he said that he ‘should have voted UKIP’. His line was consistently that Labour is too right wing so vote UKIP – which of course doesn’t make any sense. You have to ask whether he ever provides any kind of evidence to back up his views. I don’t know, but do you really want to be endorsing a UKIP supporter?

          • Michelle

            Bill I appreciate what you are saying, however it is not the man I am endorsing, but his comment. I am not going to trawl through everyones posting history prior to replying, I have not the time or the inclination to do so. For all any of us know Doug no longer supports ukip, and even if he was still intending too I would still endorse his comment because as I said, I am endorsing the comment, not the man and the party he does or doesn’t intend to vote for. I also don’t think its a good move to demonise ukip supporters. Many thought of ukip as an anti establishment party. Now its becoming increasingly clear they are more tory than the tories, my hope is a lot of their support will drain away, particularly amongst those who would normally vote Labour. For all I know Douglas may be one of them.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Fair enough but I’m just pointing out that he’s a fan of UKIP and may be a UKIP stooge.

          • Michael Murray

            Blair’s gone.

          • treborc1

            No he has not where has be gone to, has he disappeared then.

        • Jack

          “Also Miliband argued for a punitive strike against Assad”

          You seem to be in some parallel universe with that one.

          Miliband refused to vote with Cameron when Cameron wanted to support Obama’s attack on Syria. In doing so Ed probably prevented a full blown war, we all owe him a massive debt of gratitude for that – especially Cameron who was saved from himself.

          • Doug Smith

            Read Hansard.

            Miliband wanted to ensure that military action was legal, not to prevent military action.

            As an LP spokesperson told the Guardian the day after the HoC vote, Miliband never ruled out military action: “Cameron never realised the importance (…) of a second vote specifically to authorise military action.” (31-8-13).

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Have you got the relevant section of Hansard to hand?

            You can copy and paste it on here.

            Thought not.

            You’re making things up again.

          • CrunchieTime

            Miliband did a deal to support Cameron over Syria. Then he found he didn’t have the support of his own party and had to renege on that deal and instead put through their own amendment to the Conservative vote.

            Their amendment, as was pointed out at the time by Malcolm Rifkind was virtually identical to the original proposal. However, due to the way opposition politics works, neither Cameron nor Miliband could be seen to support the other, so the Government lost the vote due to lack of Lib Dem support and rebels within the Tory party.

            How is Miliband supposed to take any credit for not being able to lead his own party?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Doug Smith instructed us to read Hansard without being able to provide us with the Hansard himself or even the link that would allow us to read it. As usual he was talking sh*te without any kind of evidence at all to back up his position.

          • CrunchieTime

            Then you provide it to prove him wrong.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Well here’s the Hansard reference:

            http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130829/debtext/130829-0001.htm

            If you can read it you’ll find that it’s pretty obvious from the interventions of the Labour MPs that they wanted to stop the bombing of Syria.

          • Michael Murray

            Exactly. This is ant- labour trolls masquerading as disaffected supporters rewriting our history.

          • CrunchieTime

            Yes many Labour MP’s did as did some Tories. However Ed had already done a deal to allow bombing as indeed did the Labour ammendment. Rifkind called it correctly.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Evidence?

            Thought not. There never is.

          • CrunchieTime

            Evidence for what? That Tories voted against Cameron? He lost because of a back bench rebellion so there’s you evidence. But that doesn’t mean Miliband was against military action, he wasn’t. No matter how many times you try to rewrite history.

            Many political commentators wrote about it at the time so there’s plenty of evidence to counter your Labour spin. You prove evidence that I’m wrong.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Evidence?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Presumably you can read.
            If so read the Hansard link (that your mate Smith told us to read).

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Evidence?

          • CrunchieTime

            Well you never provide it show why should me or anyone else bother?

            Hypocrit !

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Learn to spell the words ‘so’ and ‘Hypocrite’

          • CrunchieTime

            And there in that typical sentence you have lost the argument. If the likes of you are all that’s left in the Labour party then its demise cannot come soon enough.

            Goodnight Bill.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            But this is nonsense – you’re not a Labour supporter anyway- you’re not going to vote Labour- what’s the point in arguing with you?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Your mate ‘Einstein’ Smith never provides any evidence for the sh#t he writes and neither do you.
            I assume you can read to some degree at least. Why don’t you read the Hansard link that your pal Smith told us to read?

          • CrunchieTime

            It’s a link to Hansard and will only show what MP’s said in the chamber. It won’t prove or disprove anything I have written. Miliband didn’t lead Labour to vote against military action. The PLP led him and it was well reported at the time regardless of what lies you type on here you obnoxious %&£#

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            But your pal Smith told us to read it. Now you’re telling us that there’s no point in reading it. Make your bl##dy mind up.

          • CrunchieTime

            Read your sentence above and then think about the logic path failure within it. I’ll give you a clue. It involves you expecting two people who’ve never met each other being held responsible for each others actions. I’m sure you’ll figure it out eventually.

            Nighty night Bill. I’m off for a pint. You obviously started drinking early doors.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Off out because you lost the argument?

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            I expect that he is off because, with the quality of your intellect, he will never lose one against you. And so there is no point.

            For what it is worth, I agree with him.

            Even my dog agrees, but being a Collie, he is slightly more intelligent than the average dog.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Of course we all defer to you because you are an intellectual colossus and arguably one of the greatest thinkers of modern times.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Well thank you Bill. Please don’t shout that too loudly, as I am a quiet and self-effacing sort of person.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Yup.I mean who else but an intellectual giant like you could give us the Byronesque poetry of:

            ‘So how fucking smart do you really feel, as a Labour member? Not very, if you have any IQ’

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            “Byronesque”?

            Byron might have been a reasonable poet, but he was no intellectual. I don’t think any poets of note were intellectuals.

            Talking of intellectuals, I am currently mentoring a PhD student. He makes me look very stupid, but his discipline is entirely theoretical. The practicalities are his enemy, which he freely admits.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            I was suggesting that in addition to having a formidable intellect you also have an eloquent and poetic turn of phrase. This is clearly evident from the little excerpt of yours from the past that I have rescued from oblivion above.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            There was nothing eloquent or poetic about that, nor was there meant to be. It would have been wasted on the cultural desert of LL comments.

            It was also not aimed at you, if I recall correctly.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            No it wasn’t but let’s lay off the insults, eh?

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            What insults?

            If I think that you are monumentally stupid, then I will say so. It is not said as an insult, but merely as a statement of belief. And most probably, fact.

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Evidence?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Can we lay off the insults?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Evidence?

            Thought not.

            There never is with you, is there Crunchie?

          • BillFrancisOConnor

            Here we are Einstein – here’s the Hansard link:

            http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130829/debtext/130829-0001.htm

            and here are the relevant words from Ed from columns 1447 & 1448 from Hansard:

            ‘We will not support a Government motion that was briefed this morning as setting out an in-principle decision to take military action. That would be the wrong thing to do, and on that basis we will
            oppose the motion’.

            Now let’s see how good your reading skills are.

          • Michael Murray

            That was the Tory justification for losing immediately articulated by the Tories after they lost the Syria vote and was promulgated by every Tory party spokesman who came on air They couldn’t accept that Ed Miliband completely out manoeuvred them on the most crucial vote of the Parliament.

          • Jack

            Two lessons that everyone should learn about ALL politicians is don’t trust any of them until they prove themselves worthy of that trust. The second lesson is don’t judge them by what they say or what someone else says they say, judge them by what they do.

            The absolute fact is Obama did not bomb Syria and the reason he didn’t is because Cameron lost the vote in the HoC. Cameron lost the vote because Miliband did not support him, therefore the point still stands that Ed Miliband prevented us being involved in another American war, no doubt at all about it.

          • Michael Murray

            Hear, hear!

          • Michael Murray

            You are absolutely right. And all the anti-labour trolls on here who masquerade as disaffected Labour supporters live in a parallel universe.

      • treborc1

        yes one which is willing to back ATOS doing PIP’s and now Maximus which is looking like ATOS mark two .

        Yes a compassionate labour party which cannot speak to us, you have to be hard working or at least working before labour even mentions you.

        • Michael Murray

          Not true. The Labour people I know are always talking about the Tories’ war on the poor and the disabled.

      • SilentHunter

        Which is more than can be said for all those people who died because the Labour Government LIED about WMD’s.

    • Michael Murray

      Fighting the 2005 general election I see.

      • Tommo

        Remember that New Labour won 3 elections to the trot. They were winners and know how to win !!!

        • treborc1

          Ah well the do know how to win all it took was to make labour into a Thatcherite copy

        • Michael Murray

          Yes, but what did they win for? To invite Thatcher metaphorically and literally into Downing Street?

    • Tommo

      Labour were right to support the war on terror. Any responsible government would have done the same following 9/11.

      • Jack

        Sure, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people because you believed your own lies. Actually they didn’t even believe it but they hoped we would, you obviously did – more fool you.

  • Jack

    Tessa Jowell, I’ll be polite and just say ‘go away’ it’s you and people like you who have disgusted a large proportion of traditional Labour voters with your neoTory ideas.

    • Michael Murray

      The blairites aren’t in the ascendant now. You’d prefer the real Tories, is that what you are saying?

      • Jack

        Then you can’t tell the Blairites from your elbow. The shadow cabinet is full of them and that’s why Ed hasn’t yet announced any serious Socialist policies – we live in hope.

        • Michael Murray

          I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

          • Jack

            Are they going to adopt my suggestions of a Public Bank and a Public Energy company with any profits going to the NHS by any chance? If so, please get someone to contact me so that I don’t have to keep harping on about it.

          • Michael Murray

            Go on the ‘Your Britain’ website and submit your policy ideas.

          • Jack

            I’ve already approached my LABOUR MP and asked for valid criticisms of my suggestions because I seriously and genuinely want to know why Labour is not adopting it. It is a policy that would benefit all apart from the bankers and energy moguls both of whom have been ripping us off.

            I explained that although I would prefer Nationalisation I was not suggesting nationalisation but competition and that it would be self financing. The best he could come up with was it would be too costly – I ask you!

      • I think we are saying we’d prefer real Labour!

        • Michael Murray

          Neil Kinnock’s support for Ed is proof that he is real Labour.

      • treborc1

        What is the difference….

        • Michael Murray

          Tories see no difference between Labour and the SWP.

  • CrunchieTime

    Tessa, you and your colleagues have reduced the party to nothing.

    • Michael Murray

      You wish.

      • CrunchieTime

        No, my deep regret…

        • Michael Murray

          Then get involved and change it back.

          • RegisteredHere

            This is a common call amongst party members on both sides, in spite of the fact of them being similarly disenchanted with their parties being out of touch with the grassroots.

            If everyone followed this advice and got involved, there’s no reason to suppose that the parties wouldn’t simply continue to ignore the electorate, but within a US-style Kang’n’Kodos political environment where there’s no hope of change.

          • CrunchieTime

            There is no way to affect policy any more. The cabal at the top of the party have severed the direct link from bottom to top. They make policy on the hoof and just need useful idiots to do the leg work.

            Well not any more, I’ve invested far too many wasted year in them. They can go hang.

          • Michael Murray

            Cop out.

          • RegisteredHere

            They can’t go hang until they devolve some powers to the people, which is really that whole socialism thing writ large, except that in 2015 they can actually do that for real!

            We know the Tories aren’t going to, so everyone’s looking at Labour……

          • RegisteredHere

            …or get involved and become part of the glue that stops us progressing?

  • Ironknee

    Sorry but any party that supports a benifit cap has lost my vote

    • Michael Murray

      Then you’ll be voting for losers who will never form a government.

    • jaime taurosangastre candelas

      I don’t imagine that either “the party” concerned, nor the wider electorate, would give two hoots about the loss of your support. With your support for uncapped benefits, you are clearly on the more lunatic fringes of society. There won’t be more than a few ten thousands of supporters of completely uncapped benefits, nationally. Outer fringes.

      • Michael Murray

        That’s right. Take away their benefits and their health service and let them die on the streets. Very Liberal Democrat stooges.

        • jaime taurosangastre candelas

          In what way is that at all relevant to what I wrote? It is not, in any way.

          Your argument is about the moral need for the existence of a benefits floor, with which I agree entirely, not about the existence of a benefits cap.

          Unfortunately, you seem to not have the intellect to distinguish the two.

          • Michael Murray

            Of course I know the difference between a floor and a cap. A floor, usually out in the open, is what you lie on when your housing benefit cap has been so reduced incrementally by the well fed and well housed that you have lost your home; a cap is what you beg with when your benefit floor has been removed by the well fed and well housed and you are destitute.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            You appear to be an idiot.

          • Michael Murray

            And you have obviously never heard of the metaphysicals

  • Lee Harris

    Passion is no substitute for credibility and that will be your undoing. Ed Milliband, the only man to make Neil Kinnoock look like a statesman

    • Michael Murray

      But Labour has both credibility and passion. Unlike Dave the loser who has no passion and no credibility except whermillionaires are concerned.

  • Ringstone

    I seem to remember McClusky preaching the moral crusade at the Labour conference, and now here we have a Dame Tessa playing echo chamber to the Unite line. Isn’t it amazing what £1,500,000 of members subs will buy you?
    You can’t buy our politicians, but you can rent them.

    • Michael Murray

      So the Tory party will be passing on all those millions they’ve received in donations to charity will they?

      • Ringstone

        You’re very active on this thread, are you the duty Labour Party instant rebuttal unit?
        They’re both into influence peddling, the Tories just don’t do the “pot/kettle” bit so much.
        You might say they are in hock to “business”, well that’s a broad church that provides employment to many and taxes to the government, the Labour party is in hock to one man pushing a highly politicised agenda for one sectional interest – big difference.

        • Michael Murray

          No, I’m not the duty Labour Party instant rebuttal unit. I just loathe Tories and believe that business exists to siphon off profits, avoid paying taxes and milk the British people of what should rightfully be theirs through redistribution. Concessions given to business come off the backs of the poor.

          • Ringstone

            Not the current shower; I have kids to think of.

  • Olly

    “The Labour Party is a broad church” says Tessa. Not at the moment it isn’t, and that’s part of the problem. (Rotten article too – campaign boilerplate. You’re phoning it in.)

  • Daniel Speight

    Linking Wilson’s Moral Crusade speech with Tessa in the headline is a bit cheeky Mark. We all know she is campaigning for the London Mayor’s job, but having the word moral and Tessa Jowell’s name together in the same article is a bit sickening.

    So London Labour if you want the next mayor to be a Tory again, go ahead and choose our Tess. Just remember the tabloids are just waiting for the opportunity to discuss that briefcase full of Berlusconi’s money again. (Note to Tessa, your partner was not found innocent. He escaped jail for perjury because of the Italian version of the statute of limitations..)

    • Michael Murray

      All mayoralties should be abolished and replaced by the equivalent of the old GLC.

  • Keith M

    Impassioned stuff from Tessa, what a pity she followed quasi Tory policies when a minister in the discredited Blairite government.

  • Jack

    It’s obvious from many of the comments on LL that there is still a certain amount of good will towards Labour from disaffected supporters but there is a seething anger at the way the right wingers, epitomised by Blair, have diluted the integrity, the ideals and social awareness of the Party until it is no longer recognised as a Party that cares about the vast majority of the public.

    Traditionally, Labour has been seen as a Party that values democracy, civil rights, equality, freedom of speech etc., but when it announces right wing policies that contradict those value they are quite rightly labelled as hypocrites. In the words of Liz Kendall “we do what works” Liz, just try doing what’s ‘Socialist’, it works much better.

    • CrunchieTime

      Any second now Michael Murray will be along to call you a Tory Troll.

      • Michael Murray

        Of course he’s not a Tory troll. But you are an anti-Labour troll.

        • CrunchieTime

          I’ll tell that to the Labour MP drinking next to me. I’m sure it will amuse him/her. Cheers

  • Joe Buckley

    On that note, I’ve just received notice that my ‘controls on Immigration’ mug has been shipped. If that doesn’t represent ceasing to be a moral crusade i’m not sure what would…

x

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