Councillor defects to Labour from Greens – citing “mud hut” extremists

15th June, 2012 11:20 am

Devon’s only Green councillor has defected to Labour – and upon leaving Paula Black suggested that some Green Party members have “quite extreme views”, saying:

“The Green party is a very small party and doesn’t really have the ability to serve the community in the way it should. Labour is on a massive surge and I am not the only member who has joined the party.”

“It will mean as a councillor I will have the support of a bigger structure whose views are akin to mine. Some people in the Green party have quite extreme views – we cannot go and live in mud huts.”

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  • aracataca

    Any thoughts Alan Giles?

    • derek

      A councillor that stood for an election, was elected and didn’t have a clue what she represented so jumped ship to cosy up with the big team.Seems this little piggy wanted a brick home because her mud hut wasn’t  built on a solid foundation.Just adds to the confusion of selection.

      • treborc1

        It does make one smile.

    • treborc1

      Any thought William Fred or what ever you name is this week.

      • derek

        I reckon he/she (aracataca) is a Joseph! and really does own a coat of many colours and every colour represents  a different identity! 

        • treborc1

           I doubt they had enough colours back then to cope with Fred William Arthur and his many other names.

        • aracataca

          Where’s our resident ‘Green’- Alan ‘big mouth’ Giles when you need him?
          Tory HQ taking orders?

        • AlanGiles

          I think the poster (aracataca/William/BOConnor 2) is actually a parrot since I appear in two of his aliases to be a Tory, and the other a Green. But it’s always “you’re a Tory” or “He’s a Green”.However, lets not mock the afflicted.

          If I hear much more about Progress from its apologists and supporters, I might well join the Greens officially. At least let them be honest enough to admit they are true right wingers and stop all this “Centre/Left” nonsense.

          I haven’t yet and have held back, partly because I have hoped that the party I have supported for 50 years would see Blair and co for the war-mongering aberration that they were, and move on, yet we still see the old Blairite expenses swindlers twisting and turning to suit the prevailing wind (Byrne most recently yesterday),  and the more undiscriminating Labour supporter who will go along with anything, however unjust or wrong because a man in a red rosette said it – had the man been wearing a blue one they would have seen it for what it is – and also, because I do have some sympathy for the person who has left the Greens, because some of the more extreme or enthusiastic proponents do want to go to far. Had I been that person I would have become an Independent rather than jump into bed with a party that STILL doesn’t seem quite sure of where it wants to go, or in which direction – still it’s a free country.

          You have to be pragmatic, and change has to come gradually, incrementally – you cannot change the bad enviromental practices of the 19th and 20th centuries overnight. People will see it as a punishment if policy is too draconian.

          I think Mike gave a good basic description above of the 2 types of Green, and I subscribe to the “realos” of his description.

          • derek

            @Alan  I stand with with on the “realos”  and would far rather agree there than agree elsewhere. On another issue, my son is now playing “Hall of montezuma” pretty well on the trumpet, he playing daily for about 17 mins and developing a pretty nice tone.

          • AlanGiles

            HI Derek, Glad your son is getting alone well with his trumpet – you have to build up lip and lung power gradually, as he will no doubt know, but it is amazing one day you struggle then the next everything falls into place, then you might have another bad day – the trumpet is a cruel mistress but very rewarding.

          • aracataca

            I can’t wait for you to go. Make it snappy though. Thanks for getting me moderated off.  and calling me ‘afflicted.’ You’re not in the disability rights campaign by any chance are you? 

          • treborc1

             No but I am……..

  • Chilbaldi

    Absolutely hillarious re mud huts. Just spot on!

  • JC

    Thus abandoning those who voted for her because her party represented their views.

  • The Greens have two distinct ‘wings’ as well

    The ‘realos’, who are actually more green socialists, and would tend to be on the left of Labour, with a strong decentralist, anti-nuclear, pro-peace position. Local and sustainable growth.

    The fundis or ‘deep greens’ would be far more thoroughly anti-growth, and would have a quite fundamentally different analysis. More anarchist than socialist, and would tend to be rural idealists, almost certainly veggie or vegan, and so on

    • PaulHalsall

      I am not a veggie or vegan, Mike, and in fact I will be ordering spare ribs tonight, but I don’t see that being a veggie or vegan is anything wrong.

      And I suppose, at a certain point, I oppose growth.  We cannot have a growing consumptive economy for ever.  The earth simply cannot sustain that.

    • AlanGiles

      I agree with you Mike (I did make a longer post about this yesterday but the vexatious  poster with three names had it removed, perhaps embarrassed that I reminded readers of his deceit again)

      With all this nonsense of Blair re-entering British politics and LL becoming a clearing house for yet more frantic  articles by Progress apologists and supporters, (I don’t think anyone will beat Richards for sheer hypocrisy)  the Greens seem an ever more attractive proposition, but only if you follow what you describe as the “realos” route: it would be unrealistic to expect people in 2012 to pay harshly for the bad enviromental practices of the previous two centuries, and change has to be incremental, measured, explainable and practical – above all practical. There are steps that can be taken that will not intrude on peoples lives in an agressive way, and encouragement is always to be preferred to compulsion.

      • new puritan

        I joined the Greens relatively recently and I suppose I’d fit into the ‘realos’ camp. I did give some thought to joining Labour, but it was the machinations of the Progress brigade that put me off. Of course there are differences of opinion among Greens and I’m not searching for ideological purity, but politically, I have about as much in common with the likes of Rob Marchant and Luke Akehurst as I do with the most of the coalition front bench (which is to say, not much). Reading Paul Richards’ hysterical McCarthyite rant on here the other day just seemed to confirm my suspicions, really.

        It’s a shame because as a democratic socialist (hardly the Trotskyite of Paul Richards’ nightmares), I suppose Labour should probably be my natural home. I have a lot of time for the likes of John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn, but I’m afraid I think they and their supporters on a hiding to nothing in the Labour party.

        • AlanGiles

          I have every sympathy for you – and I agree with what you say. I joined Labour in 1963 and stayed a member until just a few years ago when the antics of Blair and the New Labour shower got too much for even my stomach – in hindsight I should have left in 2003 at the time of the dodgy dossier and Blair’s love affair with George W Bush, but I stayed, thinking “things can only get bett-ah” as that ridiculous song that Mandy jigged along to on 2nd May 1997 at the South Bank said. But of course, things got worse.

          In 2009 we discovered that “Labour” politicians were just as dishonest and corrupt as Tory ones, when it came to the matter of their expenses, and the vilification of benefit claimants by the expenses cheats of both Labour and Conservative (Purnell, Byrne Grayling and Duncan-Smith really do have so much in common), was the last hypocritical straw for me.

          I have never joined the Greens, having broadly supported Labour, but the more the arrogant Progress cabal come on here, acussing of us of  being dangerous far left extremists, the more inclined I am to walk away from the party for once and for all.

          I should warn you if you stick around a poster calling himself “aratacaca” (and sometimes “William” and now and then B’Oconnor2″ will pop up every now and then and say “You’re a Green”, but it seems to give him hours of endless amusement. I think Paul Richards article the other day hit a new low, even by his already low standards.

          • new puritan

            ‘I have never joined the Greens, having broadly supported Labour, but the more the arrogant Progress cabal come on here, acussing of us of  being dangerous far left extremists, the more inclined I am to walk away from the party for once and for all.’
            That’s just it – I consider myself fairly middle of the road as far as socialists go, but the constant, shrill attacks on the left from Progress and its fellow travellers leaves me feeling completely alienated from them. They seem to expend more energy attacking the left than they do our disastrous, failing government, which I have to say I find bizarre. I’ve got a lot of respect for those socialists who hang in there and continue to fight the good fight within Labour, but I guess the in-fighting just isn’t for me.

            It doesn’t help, incidentally, that my own local Labour party (Salford) is completely riddled with cronyism.

          • AlanGiles

            Just like me – an ardent supporter of Harold Wilson, I didn’t think Michael Foot as leader was a good idea, though I admired him for his erudition and principles, even if I didn’t agree with all of them.

            Just because I cannot support the warmongering of Blair or the draconian measures New Labour chose to take over the sick and disabled I am now considered some dangerous extremist – though until I let my membership lapse, the party had no qualms about taking my money. Now I wouldn’t give them a penny.

            It seems Richards and Marchant have a bigger dislike of people to their left than they do to Conservatives, and of course, their lickspittle supporters on LL just take their cue from them.

            My local Labour party is headed by, and represented on LL by John Reid – a man who earlier today described traditional Labour as “the loony left”.

            Havering now has no Labour MPs and only 3 Labour counsellors – all 3 in just one ward. If Mr Reid is so contemptuouis of people who don’t happen to subscribe to is right[-wing views, I suspect it will become even more moribund.

  • PaulHalsall

    He should resign and allow a by-election.  I say this is true whenever an elected member defects.

    • treborc1

      Totally agree.

    • aracataca

      Even got the gender wrong. It’s a she not a he, but why read the actual post?

  • Dave Postles

    Black goes Green then ?pink?  I thought that you had to pot a red first before taking a colour.

  • Can’t really see a lot wrong with mud huts. The one in the photo looks quite sophisticated; photo from Israel, I believe. And isn’t a brick house just a kiln conditioned variant? Don’t think I’ll be joining the Green Party though…

    • treborc1

       possibly a cure for the shortage of council housing, labour and the Tories will give permission for the  homeless to build  mud huts, sadly they will have to pay council tax.

      • Not sure about that – not enough money in mud huts for politicians, non-executive directorships are not likely to be up for grabs. It’s just too straight-forward.

        How about doling out billions of tax-payer’s cash to the banks and encouraging them to impose high interest rates on tax-paying desperate borrowers…

        • treborc1
          • Best of luck to them.  I like this bit: “solar power and wind turbine for electricity, compost toilet and reed beds for grey water.” – less money for the utility corporations. 

  • aracataca

    The Greens are great are they? Try telling that to the people of Ireland. In Ireland the Green Party went into coalition with a bunch called Fianna Fail who offered people a dollop of nationalism thickened by a sprinkling of religion. This government, of which the Green Party was an important part, put the debts of the banks on the government’s balance sheet. As the banks’ debts amounted to multiples of the country’s GDP this made the country bankrupt. It was later discovered that the multi-millionaire buy-to-let landlord PM Brian Cowen was in cahoots with the developers and the banks. 
    He was enthusiastically endorsed by the Green Party and the Green Party in Ireland was equally enthusiastic about cutting pensions and welfare when the crash came. They were annihilated in last year’s general election in Ireland. Want to know what the Green Party are like in government?- Go on ask the Irish.

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