Rayner criticised as comments backing ‘shoot first’ approach to policing emerge

Labour’s deputy leader Angela Rayner has been criticised after it was reported today that she had endorsed a “shoot your terrorists and ask questions second” approach by police during a podcast recording several weeks ago.

Labour left MP Diane Abbott asked whether Rayner was “suggesting a mandatory death sentence for “suspected (but not convicted) “terrorists””, while commentator Owen Jones said the “macho posturing” was “childish”.

Lib Dem MP and home affairs spokesperson Alistair Carmichael tweeted that “Rayner may not have meant this entirely literally” but her comments were a “good reminder why there is a clear difference Labour and the Liberal Democrats”.

Labour MP and former barrister Karl Turner defended the ‘shoot first’ approach comments, however, tweeting: “It’s a working class thing, we aren’t terribly keen on terrorists or (for that matter) thugs much.”

Rayner made the remarks when appearing on the podcast of impressionist and writer Matt Forde, The Political Party, in an episode released on January 26th. She was asked by Forde whether she would consider herself to be ‘soft left’.

Labour’s deputy leader said: “Most people recognise ‘soft left’, so I would describe myself as soft left. But you know what, on certain things I’m not though, because on things like law and order I’m quite hardline. I am like, shoot your terrorists and ask questions second.”

After laughter from the audience, she said: “Sorry, is that the most controversial thing I’ve ever said?” She added: “On law and order, I think if you are being terrorised by the local thug, then yeah I want a copper to come and sort them out.”

Rayner said: “You can’t pigeonhole me, you know what I mean? It’s like, this is how I roll. I said that to Jeremy [Corbyn], I said don’t ever put me in that position, you won’t like me.

“Because we’re on a different page on something like that. But that’s the beauty of the Labour Party for me – we do have different views, it’s about finding that way of connecting with the voters.”

She later added: “You should be hardline on things like that. It’s not just, ‘Oh, you’ve been burgled, here is a crime number’. No, I want you to beat down the door of the criminals and sort them out and antagonise them.

“That’s what I say to my local police, you know, three o’clock in the morning – antagonise them. So that they realise that no, you know. Because it’s the usual suspects. We all know, if you grow up on a council estate, you know it’s the usual suspects, they think they can get away with it.

“No, I want the police to annoy the hell out of them until they realise that disrupting ordinary working people’s lives is not OK and these people deserve protection. So, I am quite hardline on stuff like that.”

Responding to Forde’s suggestion that she is to the right of Tony Blair on the issue, she said: “More police, yeah. More police. I like police, I think they do a good job.” Referring to ‘partygate’, she joked: “I’d like them to investigate a bit more.”

In a long and frank conversation with Forde, Rayner said Labour lost because the party was too “paternalistic” and “we didn’t like our voters”. She said: “They were saying things to us and we weren’t listening to what they were saying.

“We were saying, nah, nah, it’s not that, what you need is free broadband. It’s like, no. They want it now though, when they were locked down. But the truth is we weren’t listening for a long time.”

She added: “You’ve got to listen. But equally sometimes challenge, because it’s right. You don’t give away your values just for a vote, that’s wrong. But it’s about bringing your values together, aligning them with other people’s.”

Rayner told the podcast, “I’m not a communist, I’m a socialist, the communists hate me”, and said she has never met Tony Blair but texted him before doing a PMQs after the controversy sparked by her calling cabinet ministers “scum”.

“I haven’t met him. I’ve spoken to him, I texted him,” she said of Blair. “I texted Tony and said ‘you’ve had some pretty shitty PMQs, can you give us some tips?’ He texted me back and said ‘yeah, just be yourself’.”

Of Keir Starmer, Rayner said they were “not in competition with each other” as “we complement each other”. “He’s as emotionally connected to the issues as I am, he just comes to it from a different point of view,” she told Forde.

The deputy leader said she had thrived in the labour movement because: “I like chaos. That’s why I’ve done so well in politics over the last six years… I like being on the edge, because that’s how my childhood was.”

She also praised SureStart and told Forde that she continued to stand by the National Education Service policy that she “spent years developing” as Shadow Education Secretary under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

Asked whether Labour needs to be “closer to the centre ground” to win the next election, Rayner replied: “No, I don’t think so because I don’t like magnolia politics. I call it magnolia politics, you know, when you don’t offend anyone?

“If I’ve not offended anyone, then I’m not doing my job. You have to inspire as well as… that’s the point. Say what you mean and mean what you say.” She added: “Be bold, be confident, I think that’s what we’ve got to do.”