Paddy Lillis on life after Usdaw, Keir Starmer, and the Employment Rights Bill

Paddy Lillis is in a reflective mood. On one level it’s easy to understand his decision to step down as leader of Usdaw. After more than four decades working as a trade unionist, and nearly seven years in the top job, he told LabourList it’s “time for a fresh set of eyes”.

Yet his decision also comes at the final hurdle of passing the most significant labour rights legislation in a generation – the Employment Rights Bill. A bill that has been endlessly debated in the press and attacked by employers, and which he points to as part of his legacy as a trade unionist.

“The key for me was getting the Labour government in and the Employment Rights Bill. I think now we’ve got the union in a good place, it’s growing again, financially strong, and it’s time just to move over and get the next generation of leaders.”

Despite the pushback against the Bill, he said Keir Starmer has assured him on “numerous occasions” that it won’t be watered down.

“Don’t lose sight, this is transformational for the people we represent, millions in low pay sectors, retail, hospitality, distribution, (and) transport.”

Once in a lifetime bill

Describing the Bill as “once in a lifetime” and “generational”, he added: “The raft of changes are massive, and that’s why you can see the employers biting back so much.”

He said this Labour government would be the third most transformational government in British history, after Clement Attlee’s in 1945 and Tony Blair’s in 1997.

He also trusts Starmer, “an honourable individual”, to deliver.

“He lifts me every time I hear him speak in the sense that he’s true to what he says. I know politicians get a bad rap from time to time. I think he’s an honest broker, and he wants to do the right thing by the country.”

READ MORE: Usdaw leadership election looms as Paddy Lillis to retire

Lillis has always been more of a backroom operator than someone who stands on the picket lines.

He said he may have gotten “a lot of stick” over the years from other unions about partnerships, but adds that members want them to work with employers and the government “in a pragmatic and sensible way”.

‘We can agree to disagree without going to war’

However, it hasn’t all been peace and harmony between the unions and the new Labour government.

“I have had some tough, tough conversations with government ministers over the last seven months. We can agree to disagree without going to war, without going onto the press and undermining a Labour victory. Let’s be honest, pre July 4 last year we didn’t have an Employment Rights Bill.”

To illustrate the point, he said he had had one meeting with a “low level” minister over 14 years of Tory rule.

“In the last seven months, I have had at least 37 meetings with ministers, and at least five with the Prime Minister. So that tells you the difference a Labour government makes. They may not go all the way with us, but at least we’ve got an ear that will listen to us, and empathy in terms of where we’re coming from.”

He said he was sure there would be some compromises on the legislation “somewhere along the line” the unions would be happy “as long as the thrust of what we’ve agreed is there”.

Lord Paddy?

Ultimately Lillis wants the UK to be an economy that benefits workers, even if the cost hits employers’ bottom line.

“It’s going to have an impact on employers, of course it is. There’ll be a cost impact as well, but that’s something that has to be built in. We want decent jobs, and decent employers in this country. We don’t want to be a bottom basement with a low skills, low pay economy, we want to be a high skills high pay economy.”

Despite retiring from Usdaw, Lillis is adamant he “won’t be too far away” as there’s “a lot of work still to do”.

READ MORE: Full list of Employment Rights Bill amendments by MPs

Asked if he’ll be doing that work as “Lord Paddy” from the House of Lords, he laughs.

“I’ll leave that for others, I’m not that vain. Whatever I’m asked to do… I’ve got a lot more to give.”

Asked who he’d like to see succeed him as general secretary at Usdaw, he answers without hesitation: “Joanne Thomas.”

“I wholeheartedly endorse her. Not only do I endorse her, she’ll be the first woman general secretary in our 135 year history. So that’s going to be a good thing as well.”

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