‘We need to fix potholes and Holyrood’: an interview with Daniel Johnson MSP

In four weeks time, the Scottish electorate will have a very important choice to make. Scottish Labour are hoping that they will be able to successfully convert discontent with the SNP into enough momentum to oust them through this vital month of campaigning. 

Polling for Scottish Labour’s chances however, remains uncertain. Anas Sarwar’s party might have taken some comfort in YouGov’s most recent findings that 58% of Scots disapprove of the SNP government’s record. Unfortunately, the same polling suggests that 2024 Scottish Labour voters are as likely to disapprove of the UK Labour government as the SNP government. Additionally SNP First Minister John Swinney still outperforms Sarwar comfortably. 

This snapshot of the current data, regardless of how potentially unsettling, did lead LabourList to conclude that we have arranged our trip to Scotland at one of the most interesting points on the campaign trail. We headed to Edinburgh to meet with MSP Daniel Johnson, who was hoping to deliver a success story in Scotland’s capital. 

READ MORE: ‘Holyrood hope’

Johnson has served the Edinburgh Southern constituency since 2016 and has notably held roles in the Scottish Labour Shadow Cabinet since 2017, currently serving as the Shadow Cabinet Secretary for the Economy, Business and Fair Work. Johnson met with LabourList on the leafy corner of a beautifully scenic street in his constituency, where he would be knocking on doors throughout the day.

As a serving MSP, Johnson has already demonstrated that he can fend off SNP threats in his constituency. Does he think Labour can do the same across the nation? 

He says that in his experience, voter dissatisfaction with the SNP record in government was widespread. He pointed to both Labour’s ability to take seats from them in the 2024 general election and a number of former SNP representatives that have shown discontent in the Scottish government as references for this. The challenge was not a case of proving that the SNP had a poor record, rather it was communicating this effectively with voters. 

He did recognise the unique circumstances that Scottish Labour faced in trying to win support with this election. As the incumbent force in Westminster but the political challenger in Scotland, there came challenges in communication. Johnson acknowledged the success in 2024 was essential to proving Labour had credibility in their argument that only they could take on the SNP. He also was understanding of Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar’s decision to place some distance between the party fighting for devolved power and the UK government.

There needs to be a distinctive identity for devolution to work, Johnson argued. He agreed that Sarwar’s decision was the right one to “put Scotland first”. There are times that it is necessary, based on Scottish circumstances, for Scottish Labour to take divergent positions from the UK Labour Party. 

Voters show deep frustration with politics more broadly at present, though Johnson suggested this rarely turns into outright hostility. Many make a clear distinction between “politicians in general” and those who take the time to speak with them directly. 

We asked whether this dissatisfaction was leading to any appetite for Reform UK on the doorstep.

“Reform is the curveball, or the sort of the…’novel thing’, and therefore, there’s been a bit of curiosity,” Johnson responded. 

With more importance needing to be placed in connecting with those disillusioned with the political system, the MSP argued that campaign strategies should focus heavily on persuasion at a local level. Using tailored conversations rather than treating voters as fixed partisans was the best way forward. Johnson placed emphasis on identifying genuinely persuadable voters, distinguishing them from those who are merely undecided, as well as avoiding over reliance on standardised or generic central party messaging.

Discussing the party communications strategy, Johnson did feel there was a need for a clearer definition and narrative of what Labour stood for. To support ‘working people’ was of course right, but it was not necessarily understood by voters what that actually means. This needs to be done in straightforward, relatable terms instead of overly technical or alienating political language, which can further turn voters, who already hold a mistrust in politics, away from Scottish Labour.

Trust in politics, Johnson feels, is at “rock bottom”. I agreed, but posed to him a question I feel it is important for Labour to consider: if trust in politics and politicians to deliver on their promises is so low, how can you expect to win an election on a credibility argument? Surely trust must come first?

He took a moment to respond and recognised that this was complicated. Scottish Labour must be honest about the constraints they face, be direct in their communication and clearly articulate the journey they will take the public on towards improvements to day-to-day realities. 

This felt like an appropriate point to begin discussing policy. Scottish Labour’s manifesto is still yet to be released, with the launch due to take place on Monday 13th April, so we could not get too many details. However, as any astute doorknocker should have, the Edinburgh MSP showed us his campaign leaflet that demonstrated some of the plans Scottish Labour have already announced. 

The leaflet was broken down into three distinct categories, presenting voters with a sense of time scale for impact of Scottish Labour’s policy priorities. The party in Scotland is placing emphasis on fixing immediate issues, addressing structural problems and building for long-term, lasting change.

“You’ll see in every single section will have these three things. You know, fix the mess, sort the basics, build a better future… I think within that, you will see a combination of short term things, but also more longer term strategic stuff. And that is actually going to be really critical.”

Johnson outlined the need to better integrate skills with the wider education system, arguing that clearer routes into work and more opportunities for progression are essential both for economic growth and for tackling “wasted talent.” 

He also pointed to the need for large-scale house building and improvements for transport infrastructure, with improved links framed as vital for boosting productivity and reducing regional inequality. This fed into a wider commitment to more coordinated economic planning, including a new national spatial plan and a central economic delivery unit in government. 

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“It’s probably not going to be that visible, but it is actually the sort of stuff that’s really important. And below that, you know, there’s a lot of things that we need to do… to really refocus government, create better lines of accountability, and actually, to deliver the real long term kind of ability to do government better, it’s going to be a lot of boring things that aren’t visible.”

Turning to public services, he highlighted practical, early improvements they believe could quickly make a difference. Adopting the NHS app (already in use in England) would be a start in turning around the difficulties many voters face when attempting to use local health services. He also discussed plans for repairing potholes as an example of the kind of immediate, visible action voters will expect to see from a new government promising change.

Asking Johnson of his own political philosophy the conversation drifted into reflections on where Scottish Labour’s instincts may need to be. To begin, I simply asked what motivated him in politics – why did he spend his life striving for Scottish Labour?

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“You do it because you… you think… something needs to change. Things need to be put right… That [being active] will make that difference, and how are you going to do it?

“But there’s also the risk that… people in the broad district of progressive politics, you need to recognise that you can over theorise… you can overcomplicate. And I think the other thing is, because our politics are very ‘active brain rather than passive brain’. You need to remember that the passive brain, the instincts will always trump.

Sometimes, yes, we are focused on change, and we all have a theory of change, but also that we need to address those instincts.”

If Daniel Johnson could tell LabourList readers one book to read then, that influenced him with his politics, what would it be?

Kate Pickett and Richard Wilkinson’s ‘The Spirit Level’  for its exploration of inequality and its impact on social cohesion, alongside the works of Michael Barber such as ‘How to Run A Government: So that Citizens Benefit and Taxpayers Don’t Go Crazy’ and ‘Instruction to Deliver: Fighting to Transform Britain’s Public Services’.

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