“More Tory than the Tories” – Labour go on UKIP offensive

25th September, 2014 9:47 am

Ahead of the Ukip party conference, which will take place tomorrow and Saturday in Doncaster, the Labour leadership have highlighted that the anti-EU, anti-immigration party is more Tory than the Tories.

UKIP more Tory than Tories

Looking at the party’s policies, Labour have pointed out that Ukip’s tax plans – which include reducing the 45p tax rate to 40p, meaning a tax cut worth than more than £100,000 for 16,000 millionaires – “show they are standing up for millionaires and the richest, not ordinary hardworking people.” Also noting that in the past both Ukip and the Conservatives have floated ideas of a flat tax.

Similarly, on the NHS, Ukip’s policies are much in the same vein as the Conservatives – they’ve said they’d have more cuts, further privatisation measures, and introduce charges to see GPs.

In response to such policies, Michael Dugher MP has criticised the disingenuous nature of Farage and his party:

“UKIP claim to be on the side of working people, but the truth is they’re more Tory than the Tories. UKIP is a party of Tory people and Tory money. Now they want to go even further than the Tories by giving another tax cut to millionaires. 

“This multi-billion giveaway to the very richest at a time when families are struggling exposes Nigel Farage’s fraudulent claims to be a friend of hard-working families. Ex-Tory, ex-banker Nigel Farage is showing his true colours.

“Tory and UKIP policy platforms are merging: tax breaks for those at the top, working people left behind. Only Labour has a plan to raise living standards for all.”

Labour’s decision to point out these policies might suggest the leadership is beginning to take action to address the Ukip threat.

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  • David Lewis

    With the exception of immediately post second world war, whenever Labour has presented a left wing manifesto to the electorate they have been slaughtered at the polls.

    This will be no exception and they will still wonder why.

    But I expect it will be the Gloria De Pinero proposals which will do for them because they are so easy to deride and make fun of.

    • Mukkinese

      Sounds very much like someone staring defeat in the face and trying to comfort themselves…

      • David Lewis

        Really. Are you assuming that I will vote Conservative? If so you are wrong.

        I’m just a realist and I find the Labour party endlessly fascinating.

      • ToffeeCrisp

        “Sounds very much like someone staring defeat in the face and trying to comfort themselves”

        Really, so what do you think your preceding statement that “UKIP are a home for those Swivel-eyed, right wing” sounds like to the more Labour sceptical posters on this forum?

        Plenty of ordinary working class people (who used to vote Labour) are seeing UKIP as the natural home for their protest vote. I’d suggest Labour would be far better engaging with them instead of insulting them.

        If UKIP bring out a whole raft of populous policies, many of them with a left wing slant, Labour could find their vote being squeezed.

  • Mukkinese

    UKIP are a home for those Swivel-eyed, rightwing, would-be M.P.’s who the Tories think are too mad for the Conservative party. And, looking at some of the loons on the Tory backbenches, that is saying something.

    Anyone who can kid themselves that UKIP are the party of the common man is living in a desperate fantasy world…

    • David Lewis

      Welsh voters, not known for their allegiance to the Tories are flocking to them according to this morning’s reports..

      Why would that be then?

      • MoreLeftThanYou

        I cannot give the reason but I would say that Labour Leaders and loyal Labour commenters on this column have not a clue about the nature of populism. They do not understand its roots in anger and feelings of betrayal. Labour cannot get their heads around the idea that people do not want to live in a country in which non-whites will be the majority by the end of the century. But even expressing that idea is taboo. It doesn’t matter if it is true or false, it is doing the rounds on all the web-sites commented on by UKIP supporters.

        • David Lewis

          Yes, I think this is true but also the fact of the complete breakdown of local authority control and management and also the fact the Wales is now the most dangerous area in the country to be treated under the NHS.

          In short, socialism and ineptitude as comfortable partners.

          • MoreLeftThanYou

            Absolutely right. The low quality of local government is also a central issue. Maybe regional parliament with full-time politicians would be more effective but the people do not want that solution. All parties need to do something to bring better people forward to stand as councillors.

          • David Lewis

            I’ve been reading recently quite a few articles about what the local authorities in Wales are getting up to and I am very surprised that the police have not intervened but perhaps they will in time.

          • treborc1

            Tell us about it, I would be interested.

          • David Lewis

            You know all about it just like everyone else, you dullard.

          • MonkeyBot5000

            The best councillors often aren’t in political parties – my ward has three independent councillors who can pull in more votes than all of the parties combined. Two of them are a husband and wife. He quite the Tory party and she quit the Labour party because they were fed up with the puerile arguments and nothing getting done.

            These are the results from the last council election:

            Liberal Democrat 69
            Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition 67
            The Conservative Party Candidate 362
            Independent 1145
            Labour Party Candidate 242

            It’s just a shame we can’t get one of them to stand for MP.

          • Jane Manby

            Live in Morley do you. Morley has two wards, with six councilors between them 5 are independent. It used to have five labour councilors. Ed Balls’ constituency.

          • MonkeyBot5000

            Peterborough, actually.

            The land of Stewart Jackson (Con) and the bill for cleaning his swimming pool.

    • Yes some UKIP voters can fit the popular perception: A ruddy faced, golf club member from the south east of England, very, very angry about the European Union and probably a traditional Conservative voter.

      But there are lot that don’t.

      Watch out for the rise a of “red UKIP”. Farage is no fool. He’ll know that he’ll need one type of candidate for the Tory areas saying one thing, and another in the Labour areas saying another.

      • Theoderic Braun

        Are you saying that UKIP are completely politically unprincipled and will say and/or do whatever they consider necessary to win votes in different areas? Right-wing here. Left-wing there. Trying to be all things to all men (and women). Can’t honestly say that obvious political promiscuity like that would encourage me to vote for such a party.

        • Doug Smith

          “will say and/or do whatever they consider necessary to win votes”

          We’ve had some of that from the Labour Party this week: Balls showing that he’s ‘tough’ enough to take money from children dependent on benefits and Miliband showing that he’s ‘tough’ enough to hit the rich with a mansion tax.

          • Theoderic Braun

            Balls may well end up blowing Labour’s chances in the final analysis. Whenever I see him I think: “This is an inconstant man unworthy of trust.” At least the bozo didn’t boast about running a surplus by the end of the next parliament as he has done in the recent past, which is a slight improvement.

        • Stan

          It’s a tactic that the LibDems have been using for years.

          • Theoderic Braun

            So UKIP are no different from other political parties then?

        • treborc1

          If you vote for the Tories your rich or hoping to get richer, if your going to vote labour you had better be working and working hard, but if UKIP does speak what the country wants to hear then they may well pick up a few MP’s and why not.

          • Theoderic Braun

            I think you should listen better to what UKIP are saying if you believe they genuinely speak for the man (or woman) in the street.

  • MonkeyBot5000

    There was a woman from UKIP on Radio 4 this morning saying that they would take people on the minimum wage out of taxation completely. That sounds a lot better than saying you’ll try to increase the NMW by 2020.

    Your move, Ed.

    • MonkeyBot5000

      And today I’ve just heard them float the idea of a 35% tax rate for earners on ~£40k-£55k. That means a smaller marginal tax rate and clear recognition of the difference between earning £45k and earning £100k.

      Do you hear that Labour? That’s the sound of numeracy.

      Goddamn you all for making UKIP look like the reasonable option.

      • Theoderic Braun

        UKIP also want to completely abolish inheritance tax and intend to pay for all of these things by leaving Europe and razing foreign aid and social security to the ground.

        Which I think personally is not a cool idea.

        Candidly since UKIP will never be in government UKIP can say pretty much whatever it wants, no matter how damaging or daft, and, in my opinion, it would be a sorry day if irresponsible head-bangers like UKIP gained sufficient political gravity to be able to sway serious policy decisions made by any other political party.

        • MonkeyBot5000

          I pay taxes and then get some back in Housing Benefit. That’s just inefficient.

          If I was taxed less, I wouldn’t qualify for HB and the social security bill would come down.

          • Stan

            Also if people were paid more then they wouldn’t need to claim Tax Credits which would also bring the bill down.

          • Theoderic Braun

            If people were paid better they wouldn’t need so much help from the state either, whether paying direct taxation or not. If I were you I would check out the UKIP view on the minimum and living wage.

          • Stan

            UKIP’s policies on everything will be scrutinised closely in the run up to the next election.

          • Tokyo Nambu

            Precisely. That Labour think tax credits are a good thing, when in fact they’re just a subsidy to bad employers, is a scandal. That people are claiming tax credits while working for the state, and were doing so after 13 years of Labour being in office, is doubly so.

          • Theoderic Braun

            If there were more houses available for rent and/or rents were regulated properly and/or wage levels were higher you almost certainly wouldn’t need help from the state either. What UKIP are suggesting is a dinky tax cut in respect to poorer workers and a gigantic tax cut to the rich, while at the same time cutting back on all aid to non-working citizens, e.g., the sick, disabled, unemployed, carers and so forth. Which isn’t something I would welcome even though I might personally benefit from such ridiculous policies.

        • Tokyo Nambu

          Ceasing handing over large amounts of aid to the nuclear power, nuclear weapons, Mars orbiter India? Where do I sign?

          Ceasing handing over large amounts of aid to global super-power China? Where do I sign?

          Ceasing handing over large amounts of money to kleptocrats in Africa whose failed states are the result of gross corruption and mis-use of foreign aid? Where do I sign?

          Foreign aid is taking money from poor people in rich countries and giving it to rich people in poor, and now not-so-poor, countries.

          Why the hell are we giving a penny in aid to India? Post-colonial guilt only goes so far.

        • Steve Stubbs

          “Which I think personally is not a cool idea.”

          And which I think is in part a bloody good idea.

          We need out of Europe now. It’s rapidly becoming the EUSSR, if the real rulers of the EU were at least elected I might think about it, but it’s just another dictatorship.

          All foreign aid should be in the form of supply of goods produced in the UK, or credit to buy goods produced in the UK. We should never send money, it’s an invitation (gratefully accepted a lot) for corruption. We hand money to China and Russia and India (and UK trades unions) from a fund theoretically supposed to benefit the poor and unable to help themselves. In fact that’s what they do, help themselves.. We really are our own worst enemies.

          Welfare should be a good safety net, not a lifestyle choice. And should include workfare as it’s core. If fit to work, then work for society for your welfare. It’s where we will end up anyway.

  • MoreLeftThanYou

    The more Tory than the Tories argument would have more of an appeal to the average not well-off voter if the mansion tax were to be geared to take in £5 billion a year instead of £1.2 billion. With £5 billion a lot could be done.

    • David Lewis

      For me, the fascination is observing the bovine stupidity of a party running a conference which is devoted to publicising endless new ways of taxing the electorate and then expecting the same electorate to vote for it.

      That those Labour leaders do not recognise the suicidal madness for what it is, is an endless source of wonder..

      • Tokyo Nambu

        And the hilarity of watching a Labour leader give a major speech in the run-up to an election and make no mention of the economy or immigration, because he “forgot”. Someone who “forgets” about the economy is an idiot, not a prospective Prime Minister.

        • David Lewis

          Yes but less numerous if one considers the case of M Hollande.

          Miliband is more extreme and far less competent.

  • Dave Postles

    It’s a toss up, really, especially when you read stuff like the persecution of Michael Hilton.

  • Paul Adams

    All that needs to be said about UKIP is that Neil Hamilton is a prominent member, one of those facts that requires no further comment!

  • Theoderic Braun

    UKIP are against the Bedroom Tax but as far as all and everything else is concerned this article is more or less correct. UKIP are quite a bit further to the right of British politics than the Conservatives… at the moment.

    • Steve Stubbs

      “UKIP are quite a bit further to the right of British politics than the Conservatives”

      As is Ed Balls as far as I can see.

  • RWP

    Great logo, did adults work on them before they were published?

  • Monkey_Bach

    More populist lunacy from UKIP, eh?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/21/ukip-tax-plans-slammed_n_5697311.html

    Do people who can add and subtract actually fall for stuff like this?

    Eeek.

    • Steve Stubbs

      Bear in mind though that if the threshold for the 40% tax had been raised in line with inflation since it was first introduced it would be somewhere above £70,000 now.

      That is a reflection of planned fiscal drag, where a tax that was advertised and trumpeted to affect only the upper of the middle band of earners only, now affects anyone who moves above the average earner wage band.

      Deliberate and immoral in my view. If it is right to index welfare or pension payments to RPI or average wages, then tax thresholds should have the same criteria applied. Parties stand there spouting how they will not change the rate of income tax, whilst planning to raise the actual take by tampering with the thresholds.

      If there is one UKIP policy I would apply today, it is setting the basic tax threshold (including NI which is an income tax by any other name) at the rate of a full time worker earning the national minimum wage.

  • Timmo111

    SNP More labour than labour.

  • Stan

    Labour: Not as Tory as the Tories but trying to get there.

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