Sunday shows: Lammy and Thomas-Symonds condemn “ugly” far-right protests

The Andrew Marr Show

David Lammy, the Shadow Justice Secretary, said protesters who “attacked” Winston Churchill’s statue were “idiots” but questioned whether anyone was seriously suggesting it should be removed. He did not reveal Labour’s position on scrapping the Gender Recognition Act reforms or relaxing the two-metre distancing rule.

• On the far-right demonstrations in London yesterday: “The scenes were ugly and very, very threatening, and the scene involving urinating at PC Palmer’s memorial utterly, utterly despicable and must have hurt his family greatly.”
• On supporting fast-track prosecutions for violent protestors: “Fast-track, yes absolutely, of course we want speedy justice, but I would say we have a massive backlog currently in our justice system because of coronavirus and of course the viruses in prisons so how the government will do that we’ll certainly scrutinise.”
• On prison sentences for people who desecrate war memorials: “Whether we need a specific piece of legislation for memorials, of course we’ll look at, but you can already get ten years in prison for criminal damage.”
• On Churchill’s statue: “His statue should never have been attacked and the idiots that did it deflect from the central message of Black Lives Matter. But is anyone seriously calling for Winston Churchill’s statue to come down? I mean, I hope not.”
• On Churchill, he added: “I wouldn’t support his statue coming down but I recognise, of course there’s a debate about what he did in Bengal with the famine, what he did in the Tonypandy riots. I did a documentary for Channel 4 just a few months ago where I looked at his attitude to Africans that had contributed to the First World War and he was found wanting. Many great figures in history are also flawed and we ought to be able to have that debate as well.”
• On the Prime Minister’s response: “Boris Johnson sent out eight tweets, I think it was, on Friday on Winston Churchill and statues. He’s never tweeted eight times in a day on coronavirus; he’s never tweeted eight times in a day on the Windrush review and what he’s going to do about it; on the review that David Cameron asked me to do on the disproportionality in the criminal justice system and what he’s going to do about it. So this feels to me like a bit of a deflection. Let’s do something about these historic injustices that still exist in our country. Let’s respond to Black Lives Matter properly.”
• On the row between Labour MPs and Priti Patel: “I was in the Commons at the time and I thought Florence Eshalomi, the MP for Vauxhall, gave a very, very emotional question where she evoked her three-year-old son and wanting to see injustice solved and Priti Patel’s response was insensitive. But I’m not into a facile debate about who’s experienced more racism. Let’s deal with the substance.”
• On why he didn’t sign the letter from Labour MPs to Priti Patel: “Frontbenchers don’t sign round-robin letters so I would never have been asked.”
• On the leaked section of the report on the disproportionate impact of Covid-19 on BAME communities: “It’s a scandal if, one week, Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock say “Black Lives Matter”, and then we find out today that they’ve buried part of the review that had the recommendations in it to do something about it.”
• On the Sunday Times story about the government scrapping reform plans for the Gender Recognition Act: “The legislation was passed a few years ago, and actually I was part of that legislation. There’s now a change of view that people ought to self-identify and not over-medicalise. We would have to look at the legislation when it comes forward in detail, obviously. It looks like we’re some way off that.”
• On relaxing the two-metre distancing rule: “They’ve said they’re having a review. I don’t know the science, I think we will want to see the science. We would support the government on relaxing the rules, of course, as long as it’s the right time to do it.”

Shadow Justice Secretary David Lammy says “it’s a scandal” that the government says that black lives matter but “they’ve buried” part of the BAME #Covid_19 report, which is due to be released next week #Marr https://t.co/PiSfR61Jj6 pic.twitter.com/AEsKnERZmz

— BBC Politics (@BBCPolitics) June 14, 2020

Chancellor Rishi Sunak reiterated to Marr that “there is no way I can protect every single job and every single business”, saying: “There is going to be hardship ahead.” He said a second spike would be “very damaging” to the economy and acknowledged there was “some degree of risk” to reopening it.

Ridge on Sunday

Shadow Home Secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds described the violence in London as “completely unacceptable” and said he would support the introduction of a specific offence to protect war memorials.

• On violence in the capital over the weekend: “I was extremely disturbed by the scenes yesterday, which were completely and utterly unacceptable.”
• On specific behaviour during the protests: “I want to say a particular word about that awful scene of someone urinating next to PC Keith Palmer’s memorial, absolutely despicable behaviour.”
• On reports that “the government is considering a ten-year jail sentence for people who desecrate war memorials”: “I would support the government in creating a specific offence of protecting war memorials and I would be willing to work with the government on that.”
• He added: “But let’s not be moved away either from what we’ve seen since the awful killing of George Floyd in America, because the government needs to show leadership on the inequality and racism that still sadly exists.”
• On what Johnson should do: “The Prime Minister needs to come forward, show that he understands the hurt and the anguish… and also set out the concrete steps that his government now intends to take to address that.”
• On those steps: “The government could act on the recommendations of the Lammy Review, which looked at disproportionality in our criminal justice system… Those recommendations, 35 of them, have been there since September 2017.”
• On the Windrush review: “The government could act on the Wendy Williams lessons learned review into Windrush, which was published in March. Again, 30 recommendations there to be acted upon.”
• Asked if there is a “racism issue” in the police: “The outcomes of our whole criminal justice system do suggest there are issues.”
• Asked if he supports the Black Lives Matter call to defund the police: “No, I don’t want them to defund the police but what I do say Sophy is that there is a very deep anger out there, and it’s not for me to start lecturing people as to how to express that anger.”
• Asked if the two-metre rule should be reduced: “It should be reduced if the evidence indicates that it should be.”
• On Covid decision-making: “It’s a political decision that should be based on a range of scientific advice, but if that scientific advice was published it would restore confidence in the decisions that the government is making.”
• On government scrapping plans to make changing gender easier: “I’m not sure government just scrapping plans and then leaking it out in a newspaper is the way to deal with this… We need a much better way going forward that seeks consensus and respects everybody’s rights.”
• On recent polling polls and asked if Jeremy Corbyn was “the problem”: “It makes me think about the present Sophy, not the past. And I think what we’re seeing is a vindication of the approach that Keir Starmer is taking as leader.”

Rishi Sunak also appeared on the show this morning. He said that “the scenes we saw yesterday were both shocking and disgusting” but that the “country was united in condemning” the scenes in London.

He said he was sorry that some have not been helped by government support schemes in “the way that they would have wanted through this crisis”, but said that there was a “premium on doing things that could help as many people as possible”.

The Chancellor also argued that the steps that the government has taken in sending children back to school has been “measured and responsible”.