‘People didn’t vote for doom and gloom’: USDAW’s Paddy Lillis on winter fuel, two-child cap and the PM outdoing Attlee

Paddy Lillis, general secretary of the trade union USDAW, has said he remains optimistic about the new Labour government, despite concerns over cuts to the winter fuel payment and the two-child benefit cap.

Speaking to LabourList ahead of the Labour Party conference, which begins this weekend, Lillis said that he believes Keir Starmer wants to do the “right thing for the country”, but has inherited from the Conservatives “probably the worst financial mess of any Labour government since the Second World War”.

The leader of the shopworkers’ union, one of Labour’s biggest affiliate unions, said: “We have worked hard over the last 14 years for a return to Labour government. We’ve seen the austerity, we’ve seen the attacks on trade unions – ultimately the attacks on working people. There’s hope for the future.

“We’re under no illusions. They’ve come in and they find the £22bn black hole which they weren’t aware of – whichever way you look at it, it has to be addressed, because if we go back to high interest rates, the ones who suffer the most are pensioners and low-paid people.

“As much as that’s a hard message to get over, as Keir points out very clearly, if you don’t get the foundations right, then we’re in for a tougher ride.”

Despite the need for difficult decisions, Lillis called upon Labour to also offer a positive vision for the future.

“If you’re going to continue with doom and gloom and talk about tough times and austerity – people didn’t elect a Labour government for that sort of language. They want to see some hope at the end of it.”

‘I wouldn’t want to see people lose their lives through the winter’

On the winter fuel allowance, Lillis said that he personally thought the decision to means test the benefit could have been handled better, and still held out hope that a “taper” to the cut might be introduced instead or an auto-enrolment system for pensions credit.

He said: “It’s a real tough one and I get it. I think personally it could have been handled better. There’s ten million pensioners that are going to lose out on their winter fuel allowance. 

“Around eight million probably don’t need it in reality, but there’s two million there who are on the cusp who are going to be affected, who don’t have the headroom to do something.

“I wouldn’t want to see people lose their lives through not being able to heat or eat in the winter.”

READ MORE: Winter fuel debate: ‘Second rebellion in the PLP – where is this going?’

‘We’ll do whatever we can to get them to see the error of their ways’

Lillis and USDAW called upon the government to scrap the two-child benefit cap at the recent TUC Congress in Brighton. He expressed regret that the government had not opted to scrap the cap within its first days in office.

“I think it’s unfortunate in the sense it affects the lowest paid in society, it affects those who need the money more than anything else,” he said.

“They don’t see it as a priority this minute in time, but they haven’t ruled it out for the future and we’ll continue to represent our members and do whatever we can to get them to see the error of their ways on this.”

When asked about the seven Labour MPs suspended for backing an amendment to the King’s Speech calling for the cap to be scrapped, he said: “I think these debates should be held in private and not wash your dirty linen in public.”

READ MORE: TUC Congress 2024: Starmer grilled by delegates on two-child limit and national care service

‘At last, the government is talking to us’

Although Lillis is keen to push the government to go further in some areas, he notes that the new government is listening to trade unions – something the Conservatives had never done in their time in office.

“At least we’ve got the opportunity which we wouldn’t have with the Tories – we’ve had a number of meetings now with the Prime Minister and the secretaries of state for different departments. At last, they’re talking to us. We never got that for the last 14 years, the Tories didn’t speak to us at all.

“We’ve got access, and we’ve got to use that responsibly as well, we’ve got to be practical in terms of what we’re asking and be patient in that we’ve got a massive hill to climb here, but again it has to be climbing a hill where the sun shines on us.”

USDAW’s MPs in Westminster

USDAW saw several members of its staff, including Connor Rand, Michael Wheeler and Tracy Gilbert, elected as Labour MPs at the general election.

Lillis said that these and other “USDAW MPs” understand the retail sector extremely well and can take that knowledge into government.

He said: “The retail sector is seen as some sort of Cinderella sort of industry, even though it’s a huge economic engine in this country and it doesn’t get the same kudos as maybe the steel industry, the car industry or other big heavy industries.

“We showed and demonstrated very clearly during the pandemic the importance of retail workers to keep the nation fed. Sadly, during the pandemic, increases of violence and abuse towards retail workers actually doubled – the mind boggles at that sort of behaviour.

“So Connor, Michael and Tracy and many other of our “USDAW MPs” are fully aware of the importance of retail and the issues workers face.”

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Despite the economic challenges faced by the government, Lillis highlighted the accomplishments of the 1945 Labour government under Clement Attlee and what was achieved under the New Labour governments of the late 1990s and 2000s.

He said: “I think Keir will be even better than that. I think he’ll do even more, but of course he is starting from probably the worst possible position of any Labour Prime Minister in history.”

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