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London isn’t a foreign country

June 7, 2012 4:48 pm

Author:

Margaret Curran

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Like many Scots, each week I make the journey between Glasgow and London, and when I step off the train at Euston, I don’t feel like I’m in a foreign country.

Yes – home is a long way away, but there’s a reason we call these four countries the Home Nations. From chats about last night’s telly to the books we take on holiday, the Scots and English will always find more they have in common than divides them – more to make them feel at home with one another than with anybody else.

Together, we can share in the pride of our history and delight in the differences which make us greater than the sum of our parts.

This is what Ed was reflecting on in his speech today when he spoke about those things that bring us together as a family of nations. The way we can feel pride and patriotism for our Scottish identity, without having to disown our shared British identity; or the way we can take heart from the fact that Labour’s first MP was a Scot representing a Welsh constituency in a Parliament in London.

Alex Salmond claims to know the mind of Scotland – and yet this easy multi-layered identity which comes so naturally to us is totally lost on the First Minister. Scots are a sophisticated and canny bunch and we are more than capable of being fiercely proud and patriotic when it comes to Scotland, while also feeling that Britishness plays a part in who we are. A recent survey conducted for British Future bore this out, with less than a third of people in Scotland ruling out ‘British’ as part of their identity, while 66% of people thought it played some part. When it comes to our national symbols, we can also hold our multiple identities together, with a majority of Scots saying that they associate both the Union Jack and the Saltire with “pride and patriotism”.

For most Scots, none of this will come as much of a surprise. Most of us are used to the idea of being Scottish and British, of being able to take pride in our achievements together and apart. So, in August and September, we will cheer on Team GB at the Olympics and Paralympics, while in Glasgow in 2014, we will support Team Scotland at the Commonwealth Games. Yes, we may feel some extra closeness to our Scottish compatriots, but we won’t feel any less patriotic if Sir Chris Hoy and Andy Murray win this Summer and wrap themselves in the Union flag.

And as a mother of two sons – one who lives in Scotland, and one who until recently lived in London – I don’t think that they should be forced to choose where their allegiances lie or be excluded from our shared Scottish nationality and identity.

So, while the SNP would try to divide us over our identity, we know that this is not a problem of patriotism; it’s a problem of politics. We know that the struggles that bind us together across the UK, in the face of a Tory Government at home and a raging economic storm around the world are not solved by division. What we hold to be true in the Labour Party is that we can achieve more together than we can alone, and nationalism by its very definition is simply too narrow to contain the needs of now.

Margaret Curran is the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland

Dave Postles

Yes it is.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000917987009 Samuel Theodoridi
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000917987009 Samuel Theodoridi

Maybe if the Labour party did more to ‘re-address’ the class divide in the UK (I.E. a redistribution of the wealth in the UK) when in power then the SNP wouldn’t be able to have this referendum and Labour would still be in power
Quiet_Sceptic

It’s interesting what the speech did not include – no reference at all to the West Lothian question.

Obviously it’s a particularly difficult issue for Labour but at some point it has to be dealt with.
- Chilbaldi
  
  And it can only be dealt with by one of three things:
  
  1) independence
  2) abolition of devolution
  3) further devolution to the rest of the UK – either through English regional assemblies or an English Parliament.
  
  My position, of course, is number 3 with regional assemblies.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Elliott-Steven/100002291304669 Elliott Steven

London isn’t a foreign country – is this the new Brit nat slogan?
- treborc1
  
  But London is seen as a Political bubble, and when you have leaders who keep on talking about middle class being squeezed you have to ask have any of them been to my town, because most about me do not see themselves as anything not when your living on £12,000
http://www.facebook.com/CharliePM Charles Patrick O’Brien

Sent this to a few papers I don’t expect it to be printed,
Sir,I hear Ed Milliband talking nonsense again ,how stupid does this man
think we are.He has the stupidity to ask us do you want to be Scottish
or British,because if you vote for independence “You cant be British”
the man is an idiot! This island of Britain has three countries sharing
the island,one called England,one called Wales and our one
Scotland.Being independent and running the affairs of our country does
not mean we wont be still on the same island.These unionists are getting
so absurd that it is now very insulting of them to all of us,do they
think that we will saw Scotland off of the rest of the island?

We will be the Scottish people running the affairs of Scotland and still
British,lets simplify France is still part of Europe and even if France
left the EU,it would still be attached to Europe
- treborc1
  
  Totally agree, but like it or not if you get independence the Labour party MP’s will not count for the Labour party, with Wales losing a number due to boundary changes, labour needs everyone.
- Chilbaldi
  
  I disagree with the main thrust of your article, but agree that Ed Milliband’s performance yesterday was utterly woeful and poorly prepared.
  
  He started defining Englishness as ‘stoicism’ and the ability to never grumble. And his main argument against independence was that he didn’t want his kids to have to use a passport to travel to Scotland.
  
  Wise up Ed and raise your game. That was embarrassing.
  - treborc1
    
    It was a shocking speech he droned which he has a habit of doing, he then told us again about his faith even though he says he’s not religious.
    
    The hype about passports is shocking, and he should know better, Miliband is worried about the loss of MP’s nothing else.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=598725479 Ron Wilson

What about the ties that bind us together throughout Europe? If nationalism is ‘too narrow’ to tackle the real problems now facing us ….. surely we would all be better handing the keys to Berlin? Or is Brit nationalism superior Maggie?
M MacLachlan

Interesting to hear him say on Channel 4 News that England would be worse off economically if Scotland becomes Independent.
- treborc1
  
  Must be the Oil fields they say will now be drilled as the price is now right. Still a lot of Oil in Scotland it was on TV today they said the minor fields are able to produce large amounts of Oil which are worth many billions.
Airtteth

The next time you step off the train at Euston, try getting a tube ticket out of one of their machines when all you have is Scottish bank notes. Then see if you still don’t feel like you’re in a foreign country.
Bill Lockhart

” Scots are a sophisticated and canny bunch”

Generalising quasi-racist tosh.
Franwhi

As a Glaswegian I don’t think of London as a foreign country anymore than I think of Dublin as a foreign country since that is also part of my heritage identity even though I don’t vote for the Taoisheach. There are thousands of Scots who have proud, productive intercultural links with many parts of the world and at the end of the day it is the cultural rather than the political affinities with other people and places which are the most powerful and enduring – as Margaret herself acknowledges when she describes her family connections with London for example. It’s the connections with people not political systems that resonate. However I don’t think of myself as politically ‘narrow’ because I want self-determination for Scotland. Why should I ? Why should anyone who holds democracy dear ? I don’t know why Scottish Labour make this accusation as there are many even within Scottish Labour ranks who are spiritually on the road to an independent Scotland. Two things stand in the way of these independent thinkers – one is the intransigence of the Scottish Labour leadership to any constitutional change which will of necessity lessen their own power and influence and the second is the Scottish labour leadership’s visceral hatred of the SNP who they oppose for opposition sake. This is the real ‘narrow’ and negative politics which is being played out up here. When Margaret ends her piece by saying “we can achieve much together ” I’m left wondering who the “we” she refers to is since in Labour’s attempts to lock down Scottish political aspirations they have formed an unprincipled alliance with the Tory Government and Coalition partners they purport to be engaged in political struggle with. Not here in Scotland were the political power struggles throw up the strangest of bedfellows – a foreign country indeed.
derek

Maybe the problem is that no one can really explain what Britishness means? There is no doubt that there are wide disparities between parts of the uk, couple that with identity and political flavour and we get results where there are more Panda’s in Scotland than there is tory MP’s.It seems to me that Britishness was at it’s highest during those great wars and if we are to continue as a united island then someone has to define what Britishness really means because we just can’t all come together in bad times? we must also share those times evenly.
- Dave Postles
  
  Good man – but good night too!
- Chilbaldi
  
  Britishness just *is*. I am British first and Scottish second. Britain is my country, where I say I am from when speaking to a foreigner, it is the interests of Britain as a whole that I care for on the world stage.
  
  Second to that is Scotland. Scottish people are those who I feel most affinity too, in the same way that someone from Birmingham feels most affinity to Brummies. Added to that is the national pride of having our own football, rugby teams etc.
  
  I don’t get the ‘define Britishness’ stuff. Britain just *is*. It is who we all are and have been for hundreds of years. The concepts of Englishness and Scottishness are the least defined and more in need of justification.
  - derek
    
    *is?* so roughly 15 people decided to sign the act of union, then locked themselves in a cellar for their own safety?no consultation with the Scottish public just some hair-brained idea that trade would be better, well! just over 40 years later rebellion would happen again in Scotland, which would end in the clearances of the Scottish Highlands and a ban on dress ware and musical instruments, so do we declare those acts in the name of Britishness?
    Introducing a new tax take in the form of the “poll tax” that was trialled in Scotland, was it in the name of Britishness? Here in Northern Britain the British government decided to take the axe to Scottish industry, Mining, Steel works, shipbuilding the corner blocks of Scottish employment, all slashed in the name of Britishness, it’s would be akin to closing the financial blocks of London.
    
    Britishness what does it mean? that the rest of the uk should be the cheerleaders for the South and London, lets wait and see how many St Georges flags are present at the Olympics, yeah! for sure there will be other flags present to but it just adds to the enigma that *is* Britishness.
    - Chilbaldi
      
      Oh dear, harking back to the Act of Union and highland clearances is akin to falling back on the old Hitler argument. Try to stay in the present please, or perhaps look to the future?
      
      Lets look at the politics of the present. You don’t want the rest of the UK to be a cheerleader for the south? campaign for it to be different. Or do you suggest the north of England declares independence too?
      - derek
        
        All Chil, frozen to the core. You raised the historic point in your first reply, I simply corrected your mistake.
        
        Since the end of the second world war, two Olympics have taken place in the uk, both in London. one world football cup again in London and a European championship again in london. I can think of only one major sporting event held in Scotland since the end of the second world war, the 1970′s Edinburgh commonwealth games.
        
        Are you seriously asking us to be happy that many part of the South have unemployment rates at 1% while in the North unemployment rates are up in the 20% mark in some areas.
      - Chilbaldi
        
        I didn’t raise historical points in my first post.
        
        The two football tournaments you describe actually took place all over England. As you will be aware Scotland and England are separate footballing nations as far as FIFA/UEFA are concerned – and jointly held tournaments are something of a rarity. Also on the football point – Olympic events are being held at Hampden Park this summer.
        
        The first London Olympics was before the war, but you are right about the second one. To host an Olympics you typically need to be a large city with good international transport links, infrastructure, hotels, restaurants etc, basically a global city. Now as much as I enjoy Glasgow and Edinburgh, neither are large enough cities to host an Olympics. I believe Edinburgh did bid for the Olympics on one occasion and was predictably humbled.
        
        No I am NOT happy that there are inequalities between the north and south. But I see the long term solution as working to address that, not simply cutting adrift and flipping the bird.
      - derek
        
        Quote, “ Britain just *is*. It is who we all are and have been for hundreds of years.” Hundreds of years, I’d say that was an historic reference.
        
        1948 Summer London Olympics, 2012 summer Olympics?
        Yeah! but the finales and semis were London based.
        
        But who do we build a fairer nation when London is doing all it can to build that wall around it’s financial markets?
      - Chilbaldi
        
        We elect a government who want to rejuvinate the regions, is what we do. We make policy that focuses on the north, midlands, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, rather than the City. This is a much easier shift to achieve than creating a whole new country.
        
        1966 World Cup Semi Finals – Goodison Park, Liverpool. Wembley, London.
        
        1996 European Championship Semi Finals – Old Trafford, Manchester. Wembley, London.
        
        In ’66 there were two stadiums in London and several in the north and midlands. In ’96 there was only one stadium in London. Football probably isn’t the ebst example given that it is historically dominated by northern English teams.
http://www.facebook.com/christian.allardsnp Christian Allard

For Margaret Curran London isn’t a foreign country, that I knew. Now how foreign is Dublin?
- david
  
  The Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country. Ireland Act 1949 s. 2
  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/41/section/2
Dave Postles

London: 101 St. Martins Lane Suite 300, WC2 – that’s it.
JPJ2

Maggie must think England is a foreign country as this article is obviously written for an English audience whereas the one she writes on Labour Hame (that’s Scottish for Home in a truly patronising way, of course) is quite different in tone, and is clearly written for a Scottish audience.

Anyway-what is wrong with being “foreign”-we are all foreigners to most people-and many of the Scottish Labour party members have Irish republican relatives and ancestors-do they see them as horrible foreigners-I doubt it!
Bilsilver

If Scots were a sophisticated and canny bunch then why is Salmond able to operate with impunity bigging up his small abilities and getting away with it?
Could it be that New Labour has stunned Scots labour voters into paroxysms of shame and apathy?

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