Liverpool – I’m not giving any credit where no credit is due

December 30, 2011 7:35 pm

Today’s disclosure of Cabinet papers under the 30 year rule reveal that Tory ministers tried to persuade Msrgaret Thatcher to write off Liverpool after the 1981 riots and abandon it a process of ‘managed decline’. In the interests of fairness, Geoffrey Howe now says he ‘can’t remember’ saying this and Thatcher didn’t actually agree to it, although she didn’t give Heseltine – a classic Tory wet, who believed in state intervention, where are they all now? – anything like the resources he reckoned he needed to do the job. (And as someone said in response to Howe saying he can’t remember, that’s why we have Cabinet minutes – to remind him!)

I was at university in Liverpool from 1983-86, chosen on the basis that Echo and the Bunnymen were from there so it was the next best thing to Manchester who wouldn’t let me do Russian from scratch. I wasn’t aware at the time that such decisions are perhaps made on slightly more serious grounds. I wanted to be in the North West and I wanted to study Russian (because the NME said in its review of Still Ian Curtis wrote ‘The Kill’ about Crime and Punishment and Magazine’s “Song from Under the Floorboards” was lifted from Notes from the Underground) so that was that.

The city back then looked like it had just been through the Blitz. There were crumbling tower blocks with what looked like only one flat per floor inhabited, with their washing airing outside, the rest with broken or boarded up windows and balconies half-hanging off. Rows of terraced houses were the same, one family living in the midst of dereliction. Peering through the doorways or into the basements of the terraces in Toxteth you coud see piles of rubbish, old mattresses, as if they’d once been squatted but were now too far gone and rat-infested even for that. Once on the way into uni I remember being convinced I could see a dead body amidst the basement squalor, sprawled on a dirty
mattress, and lingering for ages, not knowing what to do about it. I didn’t do anything in the end, thinking it was just my imagination, fuelled by too many books and records from the dark side.

There were also immense areas of wasteland, even in the city centre, where buildings had at least been demolished but no-one wanted to build anything. Coming from the South of England – albeit a grubby industrial town which wasn’t very southern at all, except for its location – this was something I’d never seen before. Space is always at a premium in the south, every last bit has something squeezed onto it or into it. But even now, thirty years later, after an amazing
transformation, there is still space in Liverpool.

The regeneration of Liverpool has been amazing, and Heseltine – who emerges from today’s Guardian story as something of a hero – has to be given some credit for that. I think I’m right in saying that after the next wave of riots, in 1984, he was given more of the support he needed, and the Merseyside Development Corporation played a major role in kickstarting the process of regeneration.

When I was in Liverpool for Labour conference this year, which was the first time I’d gone back since leaving uni, I spoke at a Centre for Cities breakfast fringe, and the representatives from Liverpool there said that although the regeneration now is primarily private sector-led, it couldn’t have happened without the public sector playing an early role. This was also something I observed in Shanghai when I was there before Christmas. Yes, it’s the huge corporations and the glossy retailers that dominate the landscape, but it was the State that built the eight-lane highways and the Metro and put the utilities in place, and, in many cases, gave the companies the land for free, or at a knock-down price. There is no such thing as a purely private sector-led recovery, despite what this Government would have you think. They abhor ‘big government’ and in abolishing the Regional Development Agencies they ignore what the history of Liverpool tells us, that state
intervention and political leadership are absolutely essential.

Here’s the Guardian article… interesting how many Tories on Twitter are rushing to say ‘but she didn’t do it, did she?’ as proof of Thatcher’s good-heartedness. Well if you read the piece you’ll see that Heseltine was begrudgingly given a pittance of the money he reckoned he needed. They probably thought he was empire building, but I think he was absolutely genuine in his approach on this. And I can think of many other ways in which the Thatcher government abandoned the North (its industrial strategy, laissez-faire approach to unemployment, blinkered focus on the service sector) so I’m not giving any credit where no credit is due.

Kerry McCarthy is the Labour MP for Bristol East. This post was first published at her blog –  “Shot by both sides”.

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    I hadn’t heard of any of this before today, but the media seem full of it.  No doubt GuyM is spitting teeth at the thought of his southern money being spent on Liverpool, and no doubt Mike Homfray is wishing Liverpool had declared independence back then.  I’m however very happy that even Maggie knew enough to allow enough to keep this part of our country firmly part of the whole.  Liverpool has a very special place in British history as the port of the industrial revolution and of the empire (and we cannot ignore the darker passages of history and the profits from slave trading), and I hope it does again in the future.

    • GuyM

      I doubt I’d have wasted a penny on the place Jaime and I’d be with Mike in wishing they had got their independence.

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        Goodness Guy, pretty soon you’ll be reduced to some golf course in a nice bit of Surrey as your remnant of an ideal Tory England.  You can’t go throwing off all the bits of the country that don’t vote your way!

        Why not come and spend a day with me in A&E in rural tory Cambridgeshire?  You’ll soon realise that we have a politically inconvenient number of drunks, drug addicts, speed merchants crashing cars, Poles coming in from the fields with “agricultural accidents” or female partners coming in with injuries they cannot explain – both of the last looking to me like injuries from blows or fighting. There’s also a few old men and ladies brought in with breathing difficulties whose core body temperatures indicate that they are not heating their houses properly, and whose digital extremities show signs of extended tissue hypoxia as the blood retreats from the cold parts.  Not quite the true blue narrative, but part of society anywhere in the country.  You could scrub up and help out by wiping away vomit and blood along with Danushka, Sarasi, Ashok, Bituin, Jasmine, Sinead and Paul. Danushka would put you in your place – she speaks 4 European languages, can swear like a Bishop in all of them, and has zero time for anyone from me downwards in the unit running at less than 100% efficiency.

        • Peter Barnard

          @ Jaime, 

          Just added my “like” to your “daily diary” of A & E cases.

          It’s  a good job that you don’t work at the “rough end” of Cambs …

        • GuyM

          No thanks, public service just isn’t my thing anymore.

          The military was my choice, once that fell through (due to injury) no other option interested me.

  • Peter Barnard

    @ Kerry McCarthy MP,
     
    What we also see from the papers just released was the total dishonesty of the Lady Thatcher and her ministers :
     
    Lord Howe proposing to publish a jobless figure of 2.9 million for 1982/83, when he knew that his own Treasury forecasts were 3.1 million to 3.2 million ; “Obviously we should prefer to avoid publishing a figure over 3 million …”
     
    Lord Howe massaging the inflation forecast down to 10 per cent ; that was at the bottom end of the internal forecasts. A note from Thatcher proposed publishing even lower figures …
     
    “Two-thirds of the party and two-thirds of the cabinet were opposed to the procurement of Trident,” (John Nott) when it was stated at the same time that that the cabinet “unanimously supported” the Trident acquisition.
     
    Falklands : ministers received warnings in 1981 that naval defence cuts could prompt an Argentinian invasion of the Falklands. Thatcher ignored the warnings – indeed, said that the invasion came out of the blue, or words to that effect – and nearly 300 UK servicemen died “to save her face” as that memorable Private Eye cartoon portrayed. Jim Callaghan, a few years earlier, responded to Argentinian sabre-rattling by sending one of our nuclear submarines to the South Atlantic. The sabres were put back in the scabbards …
     
    Sofa government : Thatcher restricted discussion of “controversial subjects” to a “trusted” select few.
     
    And they say that New Labour invented “spin.”

    • GuyM

      and yet despite your peddling of “stories”, Thatcher remains a hero to me and millions of others, whereas your own ex prime ministers are reviled even by your own

      • Anonymous

        She will be my hero the day the old bat dies.

      • Peter Barnard

        @ Guy M,

         re “peddling of stories” : you’d better have a word with the FT journalists who reported the “stories” from what they read in the official documents that have just been released.

        I’m sure that you will receive short shrift should you question their integrity

        • GuyM

          Simply because a journalist writes something with their own slant does not mean I believe it, in the same way just because you use a set of statistics with your own personal slant on them does not mean I don’t believe it automatically although it does get close to it.

      • Anonymous

        A wonderful woman indeed.   A political giant of her times who achieved so much for the UK.

        • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

          Yes, I can’t agree more. The way she used revenue from oil to de-industrialize Britain  and finance unemployment – what a stoke of genious. Why not bring her back to finish the job then all we have to do is turn the lights out as we emigrate.

        • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

          Yep, misery for millions. No wonder you love her.

  • Duncan

    To be honest, “managed decline” is probably a positive spin on the reality of how many inner city areas (not just in Merseyside) were treated by successive governments in the 80s and since. There has been some regeneration in recent years, but travel around many of our cities and the regeneration is pretty shallow and in many cases has merely evicted and rehoused destitution, not eradicated it.

    • Anonymous

      Yep sadly except for a few hospitals, building school on PFI labour did not do much either.

  • Pingback: Geoffrey Howe and The Leaving of Liverpool « Though Cowards Flinch

  • M Cannon

    Whatever Sir Geoffrey How did or did not say in 1981, the Conservative government backed Mr Hesletine’s regeneration plan for Liverpool.  The Liverpool which Ms McCarthy found in 1983 was not the product of just the previous 4 years.  Liverpool had been in decline for decades, not least because of two factors.

    The first was that it is a port on the west coast, a port which had prospered on the slave trade and then on the cotton trade.  Toxteth had been the home of successful Georgian and Victorian merchants (I think, but am not sure, that Gladstone’s family lived there at the beginning of the 19th century).   As our trade changed so that more and more was (and is) with the rest of Europe, Liverpool found itself on the wrong side of the country.  The slave trade had – thank goodness – long been abolished and the Lancashire cotton industry was in decline.

    The second was a record (or repututation) for trade union militancy (I seem to recall lots of strties by dockers and at Halewood and elsewhere).  If you were thinking of opening a factory in the UK in 1981, Liverpool would not have been in your list of top 10 locations.

    Ms McCarthy may well be right that Mr Hesletine did not get all the money he asked for.  That is what happens in government in difficult times.  But he seems to think he got enough.

    No amount of money can solve or could have solved the geographical problem.  Liverpool grew because it was well placed for our trade from the 18th to mid 20th centuries.  It is not well placed for our trade now (as it was not in 1981). 

    But Ms McCarthy scores a point for liking Magazine.  Personally I consider Joy Division over-rated, but enjoy Half Man Half Biscuit’s “I’ve Got Joy Division Oven Gloves”.

  • Mike Homfray

    This doesn’t altogether surprise me. Headphone was in the mould of the great Tory interventionist municipal giants – he is a true Tory rather than a neo-liberal but there are few of them left. The city has had some significant advances but we do still have our problems. In Liverpool they are exacerbated by the fact that our decline wasn’t really based on manufacturing decline as we didn’t ever make all that much. The creative industries are strong in the city and hopefully when the cruise liners start to use us as a departure point our tourist industry will grow as well. But there has always been high public sector employment too largely because the deprivation we do have is very ingrained and inteergenerational. Independence – now there’s a thought. Emotionally I think we already are!!

    • Mike Homfray

      Headphone?? Try Heseltine!!

    • Anonymous

      I was working just out side of Liverpool  repairing the Bidston moss viaduct. and then at night watching  Tommy Smith score a goal in the old  European championship standing on the North bank…..

  • Anonymous

    I think these revelations may tell us a great deal about underlying attitudes and beliefs;
    a specific ideology which says: “there’s no such thing as society” and that individuals,
    regardless of circumstances, must fend for themselves with little support or encouragement.

    Also, that whole swathes of the country/communities could be virtually written off and left abandoned.

    I don’t believe that Maggie T was uncaring, but that her “creed” was and is wrong.

    A far more balanced approach is needed between public and private sectors;
    also joined up thinking. For example, there’s no point putting pots of money towards
    peripheral projects in cities if not addressing structural factors like jobs and housing?

    This North/South divide thing also sounds like the stuff of Victoriana;
    people from all communities need opportunities to thrive and develop.

    I enjoyed this article, and found refreshingly written, thankyou.

    Jo

    • GuyM

      If you are going to quote Thatcher try and read the entire quote, not just little soundbites taken out of context.

      The “no such thing as society” actually reads:

      “I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand”I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!” or”I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!” “I am homeless, the Government must house me!” and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations”

      At no point did she ever say “there is no such thing as society”, so please do stop quoting incorrectly.

      As to the north/south thing, I think you are backpeddling once again from a problem part caused by Labour. If members of your party spend decades insulting the south of the country you can’t be surprised when the south becomes at best apathetic about the north. Try reading comments in the Standard or listen to people in pubs down here and believe me the Scots especially and then northerners are not well loved. Taking the p*** out of scousers is almost a social requirement in London.

      • Anonymous

        Wrong as usual, Guy. Thatcher DID say “There is no such thing as society” during an interview with a journalist from Woman’s Own magazine. Here’s a URL that will take you to a web page belonging to the Margaret Thatcher Foundation for you to verify this fact rather than take my word for it:

        Interview for Woman’s Own (“no such thing as society”)

        I would have thought that you would be proud of Baroness Thatcher (who received not one single visit from her own children over Christmas, despite being frail and in her twilight years) for echoing beliefs that you yourself conspicuously share and try to proselytise like some hellish missionary. 

        • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

          Well done, you slapped him down. He just makes things up as he goes along. The truth for him is what he wants to believe and everything else is *stories*!!!

        • GuyM

          And again let me point out that you take her comment out of context.

          Personalli I’d agree with the drift of what you are pinning on her, there is no such thing as society.

          I feel absolutely nothing for you, yours or your fellow socialists, no warmth at all and no desire to help or aid any one of you at any time.

          Now tell me “society” exists when it is as deeply divided as that? I shall be at a new year eve party tonight where union members, underclass, socialists and the like are dirty words. All well to do middle class families saving up, avoiding tax where they can and all with their children either in selective or private education… not a single one in a comprehensive.

          As I’ve said before, there is no middle ground Jeff, I hold your views to be that of the enemy and would rather burn everything down than contribute to the f’d up country you’d like to see.

          Now tell me there is a “society”?

          • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

            The bonds of society will be found between the long queue of people waiting to kick you up the a*s when you happen to be standing atop of the White Cliffs of Dover.

          • GuyM

            I think you’ll find the people around the White Cliffs couldnt give a rats arse about your version of society, they are too busy being NT members and hoping some nasty little encalve of social housing doesn’t get built anywhere near them.

            There is no solidarity with your sort Dave, the people I know would see you clearly as the enemy. You want to take from them to give to your core vote…. why the f shold anyone feel solidarity with a thief?

          • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

            I don’t take from no b**ger. But would like to give you something to remember me by daft lad.

          • GuyM

            If you support higher taxation and redistribution of wealth beyond that of provisin of state services like the NHS i.e. you believe in increasing things like tax credits on the back of higher top level taxation then you fit my comment.

            I was not put upon this earth to work to subsidise the income of others, pay towards the NHS, education yes, pay to provide mobile phones, trainers and take aways for the underclass no.

          • http://twitter.com/Newsbot9 Newsbot9

            You’re a prominent member of the 1% underclass of thieves.

          • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

            Hitting the nail on the head… Could also say, ‘a sock-puppet supporter of the 1% underclass of scumbags’.

          • GuyM

            Rather be in that 1% than down in the underclass with the likes of you.

          • GuyM

            Of course… do well in life and you’re some low life to many in Labour, whilst every benefit claimant who has never worked, every illegal immigrant, every petty crook is natural Labour party fodder at the ballot box.

            Thanks for conforming to the stereotypical view many have of certain parts of the Labour movement. Little unsuccessful people bitching and moaning at anyone who does slightly better than your core vote.

          • GuyM

            From The Times today:

            “The North-South divide in house prices has continued to widen over the past year as parts of the South East experienced growth of 16 per cent, while values fell up to 15 per cent in some towns in the North and Midlands.

            The latest house price figures from Halifax suggest that the areas that have fared worst are those outside London and the South East with the greatest proportion of public sector job losses.”

            We aren’t ”in it all together” and can I suggest that the majority of us down south are quite happy with that. 

      • Johnhenry59

        GuyM – Go peddle your nasty tripe in Conservative Cave (Home). The neanderthals and troglydites there will give you a warm grunt of a welcome. It is dark, reactionary, nasty. insular, parochial and narrow-minded. Just  the place for you. Oh, you might meet Aidan there handing out Nazi SS uniforms. They are compulsory in Conservative Cave. Also the old Eonians can be a bit of a nuisance running around screaming”More champagne, lower taxes, get rid of the NHS, lock up Trade Unionists, where’s Maggie…”whilst smashing the place up. Aidan will make sure you get a pic taken and put on the internet.

  • Anonymous

    “…and abandon it a process of ‘managed decline’.”

    I would suggest that if it was abandoned then it was not managed.  And isn’t ‘managed decline’ exactly what the Labour Government of 97 did for whole chunks of the UK beyond the M25.

    Anyway Liverpool had been and continues to be in decline since the luddite dockers refused to move with the times and all the shipping moved to non-unionised container ports.

    “There’s no problem so bad that a politician cannot make it worse”.

  • CatOwen

    Why have you not been back to Liverpool since Uni?!!

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