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Miliband: “We have more work to do”

May 4, 2012 9:46 am

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Ed Miliband has released the following statement as the results continue to come in from around the country:

“I want to thank everyone who voted Labour yesterday and placed their trust in us. I also want to say something to those people who voted for other parties and the many people who did not vote at all. I will work tirelessly between now and the next General Election to win your trust.”

“I know we have more work to do to show we can change our country so that it works for you, for your sons and daughters who are looking for a job, for families feeling a squeeze in living standards, for everybody rather than just a few at the top.”

“David Cameron promised change but has failed to make things better. People are hurting from this recession. People are suffering from a government that raises taxes for millions of families but cuts taxes for millionaires. I am determined that we show people we can change people’s lives for the better.”

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  • Dave Postles

    Well, here’s a turn-up.  Apparently the official modelling (and it is only modelling) suggests that then optimum level to maximize tax revenue is 48%, not Osborne’s 45%.  Labour should promise to restore the highest marginal rate of income tax to 48% for £150k+ and introduce a new rate of 45% for £100k+.

    • Dave Postles

      Sorry, what I meant was to introduce these rates as a three-year project so that the real levels of revenue can be assessed.

      • GuyM

        This goes to the heart of the problem with people like you.

        Tax rates should be seen in terms of how much you can get, not whether it is moral to take so much from some people’s income.

        Socialists are simply nasty little thieves, nothing more.

        • TomFairfax

          So the story from last weeks Telegraph that the current government are the most Socialist since the war, whilst clearly hyperbole, rather suggests you have thieves to the right, thieves to the left, and no chance to avoid rendering unto Her Majesty’s Revenue what is hers.

          • GuyM

            On the contrary it’s fairly easy to avoid if freelancing.

            But equally true is the fact that if you don’t work too hard, make sure both you and your wife earn just below the £100k mark and don’t buy a load of consumer crap you don’t get taxed that much.

            My household income is well over £150k pa yet we only pay a income tax rate of slightly over 27%.

            And the nice thing Tom is there is f all you can do about it :)

            Actually as the ISAs also give tax free income and the pension payments get 40% tax rebates that 27% drops a bit.

            Not a damn thing you can do about it either.

          • TomFairfax

            Two points Guy.
            1) You need a better tax accountant, or deep down you don’t actually object to paying for for some government. 27% on total income doesn’t indicate any special activity to avoid tax. Just PAYE works out at about the same level at well above the average income.
            I know people who earn somewhat more than you claim to and pay a lower proportion in tax. (including the SWP member working as a Director for a err, british petroleum company. He doesn’t need to assist in the downfall of capitalism, his less socially aware colleagues are doing a fine job on their own.)
            However, none of them are as misanthropic as yourself, and  don’t just hoard their wealth like the veritable evil dragon.

            2) I could swear somebody logging on with your name said they personally had a package of £150k, not a joint household income. It might be the same thing of course but seems like a retreat.

          • GuyM

            You need to read and understand a little better.

            The 27% referred to is when both myself and my wife are in client side roles i.e. on PAYE.

            If we were both consulting freelance (as we were last year) then it would be considerably less than 27% as (like dear old Ken) it would be fed through a ltd company.

            But yes I “hoard” my wealth as I earn’t it and I don’t feel obliged to hand it over to the undeserving also known as Labour’s core vote.

            As to the £150k, when I was freelancing the day rate put me a little bit below that. Normal rate is somewhere between £500 to £600 per day, you can do the maths. Client side is obviously less but with all the benefits, so package size is ok.

            But either way, neither myself or my wife work for anyone other than ourselves and certainly not your left wing vision of society.

          • TomFairfax

             Hi Guy. I can read your reply in my inbox but not here. Curious.

    • hp

      Don’t forget to subtract the rate of National Insurance – that’s just income tax under a different name.

      • GuyM

        Indeed, it already is 42% and 47%.

        In addition at £100k allowance get withdrawn so you have a marginal rate well into the 60%s

        Plus “optimum” level is dependent on the factors included and whether they have been correctly quantified.

        Plus predictive modelling is practice than can come out with all sorts of funny results if you aren’t careful. I know this as it sits under my professional remit.

        Lastly of course “optimum” doesn’t equate to “competitive” necessarily.

      • Dave Postles

        The modelling was the same modelling by which Osborne claimed that the rate should be reduced from 50% to 45% – but the ex-Cabinet Secretary has spilled the beans.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/03/top-tax-rate-cut-large-cost?INTCMP=SRCH

        • GuyM

          The rate should have been reduced (and was) simply as it was both immoral and uncompetitive.

          No one should pay more of any pound they earn to the state than they get to keep themselves.

          But then you are happy with salaries of £30,000 pa, whereas I’d not get out of bed for that.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Guy,

            I never come back to you on some of your more outrageously calculated comments, partly because I do agree with you on some of the underlying issues that you highlight, often uncomfortably for Labour, even if I find it somewhat confrontational in the manner you choose to express your views.

            However, this is a country of 70 million people, the majority of whom in this year will not earn £30,000.  And yet all of these people make our country what it is.  Vast numbers of them perform services that you may never even notice, but your life would be considerably less comfortable without them.  I will not try to pick a fight here, but have some consideration for them.  The policeman, the soldier, the teacher, the nurse, the road-worker, the coffee-shop worker, the man who cuts the grass at your golf club.  Not all of them are raving socialists out to steal from you.

            I’d like you to meet one of my senior charge nurses.  She is brilliant at what she does, and is paid about £34,000.  She was born in a small town in western Ukraine.  She speaks 4 European languages – useful in East Anglia where we have many eastern european workers.  She has a brilliant bedside manner, she can organise just about anything with huge efficiency.  Children love her because she pulls a funny face and makes them laugh even when they are in pain.  She terrorises me and the house officers if we get too caught up in our own magnificence, she will sit and hold the hand of a confused older person who is waiting for treatment, she never forgets a fact.  If she was not a nurse, she’d probably be a huge success in any other business, and be paid according to her value.

            I think that if you met her, you would realise that people paid the sort of money that you would not get out of bed for are not your enemy, they are in fact the vast majority of people in the country.

          • GuyM

            I think you misunderstood both the meaning and context of my comment on “£30,000″.

            Firstly the figure of £30k pa has been bandied about once or twice by a certain LL poster who has descibed it as his old wage that he seems no one really needs any more than.

            Secondly, my not being prepared to work for £30k pa relates to my position now. Back when I first graduated and started life in a company post room I’d have loved £30k pa.

            However given the years of training and experience I would not now under any circumstances even consider working for £30k pa and I suggest you’d not be too pleased if it were suggested you ran your A&E department for that amount either.

            Dave Postles would like to cut my income, cut that of my wife, tax us both more and force us to a level closer to average income when neither of us has only “average” qualifications, skills or experience.

            Good luck to your charge nurse, but I do not go to work to fund her, I do not train to benefit her, I do not take on increasingly responsible jobs to support her. I work only for me and my family and accept the need for a degree of taxation to fund universal services and a basic state safety net.

            People should take personal responsibility, not wait for some damn socialist to decide who gets what based upon their crappy ideology.

            If your charge nurse wins the lottery, gets appointed to a far better position than I have, I would congratualte her and not expect a penny to come in my direction because I earn’t less.

            I don’t like the working classes and underclasses. That does not mean I wander around insulting members of those classes, but it does mean I do not want to spend my time, socially or otherwise mixing with them. I don’t like their tastes, social choices nor voting patterns. There are enough people on the planet to have a full social life without my needing to mix with either the lower classes or socialists.

          • AlanGiles

            FFS Here we go again.The parrot chirrups
            “the lower classes” – again

            You have no class,no taste, no decency and you have nothing to say except the constant repetition of words like “scum” and “thieves”. 

            You ought to be receiving treatment for your condition.

            An don’t bother with the “bus pass” ‘joke’ again, cretin.

          • GuyM

            Why the hell should I like them Alan?

            You can’t answer that other than seemingly that they exist… that isn’t enough.

            I don’t see any value to them or myself from mixing, better they stay with their own kind and I with mine.

            They largely support a party that clearly believes in higher taxation. I’m sure most of them would not like the fact my wife and I earn far more than the average household, so why should I have any respect for a group whose tastes I detest and who wish to redistribute my income away from me?

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Guy,

            you do go to work to fund her (or at least your share, probably pennies a year from your tax).

            I can guarantee that should you be so unfortunate as to suffer an accident or illness while in our “catchment area”, you would get absolutely the very best we could all do for you, and you would deserve that.

            I can also guarantee – having on many and regular occasions had the rough edge of Danushka’s opinion (I know I am in trouble when she walks into my office and closes the door behind her) that she is perfectly capable of having strong opinions and knowing when and where not to express them.  In public, she is totally loyal, in private totally forthright.  That is exactly what I respect in any modern organisation – not servility, not public criticism, but constructive and honest dialogue to achieve the best results.

            What is worrying is that she and my wife get along very well.  I am sure they compare notes on my foibles and weaknesses, with laughter.

            Lastly, on your final paragraph.  I do support the dialogue here on LL between shades of opinion, even when it gets robust.  I dislike socialist thinking, not socialists, and consider myself to be a social democrat while many here would not.  But I do wonder about the logical thread of your thinking – there does seem to be a disjunction between your desire not to mix with many people, and your attentiveness to the discourse.

            To take it away from you and Alan Giles (with whom you have regular ding-dongs), as an example Derek and I have back and towards frequently.  And yet I do feel that Derek and I could go out for a pint of beer together.  Maybe I delude myself, but he and I can always find a laugh somewhere, or swap some obscure music tracks between us.  I’m sure that Mike Homfray and I could have a civil discussion, and I know that Dave Postles would be fascinating to spend an evening with, even if I was not to him.  I’d learn all sorts of things about middle England and our language, and also about IT.  I’d certainly also enjoy a conversation with Chris Cook, but he would have to speak in economic terms I understood!

          • GuyM

            I did say I contribute to universal state services (including your nurse) via taxation.

            I’m not though ever going to support a degree of redistribution simply on the basis one job pays less than another in the marketplace.

            As to the church hall scenario, I’d not be in there and if I was I’d leave. Replying on a blog thread is light years from being around people I thoroughly detest.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Fair enough (your middle paragraph).  I would not either, in absolute terms, but there is an acceptance by all mainstream parties, and I agree, that the least fortunate contribute least, and the most fortunate the most.  what the balance is is a matter of politics:  I am broadly happy with it being at 40-45% for those on £100,000 or more.

            I would like to see the rate hiked up – quite a lot – for “bonuses” paid out too quickly.  Bonuses paid over 4-10 years would do a lot to cure some get-rich-quick behaviours that in part at least have contributed to our current financial mess.

          • GuyM

            I’ve received bonuses in my last 3 jobs, but all were linked to personal delivery of appraisal targets and corporate performance.

            Not one of those companies though were in the financial sector and many private sector companies outside financial services pay bonus and it simply would not be fair to make staff wait over 4 years.

          • derek

            Woes me  @Jaime, I get the pint! while others get to converse Doh! LoL! Hmmm, is it my simple mind? 
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7KNtF5KjE 

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Derek,

            pints exchanged, not a one way redistribution!  I like the Café Royal in the New Town, 12 oysters at a time with a pint of 80 shilling.  Rinse and repeat 3 times, there’s enough calories to last a week and more than enough potassium to fire up the libido for when you get home.

            Never mind your simple mind, here is a public road safety notice.  Do not listen to this while driving your bus, or me driving the 17 year old Volvo with the wonky headlights on the A14.  Speeding points guaranteed:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4YH1N04pc

            (Sorry about poor video quality, but the other version is tamer).

          • derek

            @Jaime, 12 oysters at a time….Ouch! Jimmy Johnstone left football and took a job with Keane gas works, a director with Celtic, Jimmy got around with his new job and would often frequent many a local, Jimmy would tell you about the 1967 EUROPEAN CUP FINAL in detail, as he explained standing in the tunnel waiting to go on to the park, lined up against the Inter Milan team, with their slicked black hair, tans and spanking new strips, looking down on Jimmy, Jimmy just replied with an inner thought lets see if you look at me that way when the games kicks off and sure enough within 10 minutes of the games starting Jinky had run rings round their back 5, Glorious Jinky! such magestic memories!! 

      • Peter Barnard

        “NI is income tax under another name” (by hp).

        No, it’s not.

        • hp

          Yes, it is a bit worse, but still basically a percentage tax on income.
          If out tax system wasn’t so rediculously complicated the two would have been merged some time ago.

          • hp

            sorry about the typing – I’ve been drinking

        • GuyM

          For the taxpayer there is little difference between the two, both are a % of income taken out of wages

  • hp

    Blah, blah.
    Now tell us exactly how we are going to deal with the million million pound debt that the country is saddled with.
    Here’s a clue:  spending money you haven’t got doesn’t work.
    If it did, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now.

    • TomFairfax

       That would be the £1Trillion national debt achieved under George Osborne in the last quarter. A man making enormous cuts so that he can give it away to support the Euro.

      Maybe you should mention not spending borrowed money on ConHome, so they are aware that people have noticed they keep putting back the date they actually balance the budget without even starting to reduce the deficit.

      • hp

        I think Con Home can add up, so I don’t need to ram the point home there.
        There is need to point out a few home truths to the swivel-eyed Eurosceptics, though.

        • treborc1

          That’s nice of you to come all the way over to tell us

    • DaveCitizen

      We “deal with the million million pound debt that the country is saddled with” by making sure no one siphons off great quantities into overseas accounts or pours it into property investments and the like.

      By taxing gross excessive wealth of all forms out of the system we can easily afford better public serves – just like they do across Scandinavia. It just means re-balancing our society to remove obscene inequality, which is good for everyone anyway.

      People need to be incentivised to contribute – at the moment a tiny few are incentivised to block our country’s progress.

      • hp

        It’s a shame these things weren’t being considered over the previous 10 yrs.
        Better late than never, eh?
        I like the idea of creating incentives to contribute.
        Well done – the first positive notion I’ve heard.
        It doesn’t actually deal with the £Trillion problem but, if I understand you correctly, I like your thinking.

  • TomFairfax

     I think Ed might have to update this.

    Governments in cases like this during the results shows generally set a target figure for the opposition they know is unachievable.
    Eric Pickles and co would typically then use this to explain why the opposition underperformed and it’s not really that bad for the government. As he did.

    Actually Eric the Lard set a target that has been well and truly attained and with plenty more to spare.
    The conclusion is that the government didn’t see this coming.

    Let’s not miss out on the Tory analysis for their ‘normal mid-term’ result.

    Gary Streeter MP: said many voters did not perceive the Government to be “competent”.

    Cllr Vivien Pengelly, ex-Conservative leader of Plymouth Council, blamed the Prime Minister for her defeat.
    “David Cameron will be knowing in the next week or so exactly how I feel,” she said. “He must listen to the people.”
    She laid fault at the Government’s door for the “Jeremy Hunt fiasco”.
    She also attributed it to public spending cuts “affecting very vulnerable people, especially here in the south west.”

    Douglas Carswell MP: ‘..the folk I represent in Clacton aren’t laughing about the Budget, …and they’re not laughing about the loss of economic growth.’

    Are these people closet Socialists or are they like everyone else wondering when George Osborne and Dave Cameron are going to stop, put the shovel to one side, and think about what the’re doing.

    • treborc1

       I’m sure the Tories were expecting to be hit, but i doubt they believed it would be this serious for them, it’s how they respond to this now.

      • TomFairfax

        I agree. And the signs right now is that the reaction is the herd of cats response we saw under Major’s last term.

        The other week Theresa May was deserted by her own side in the Commons. If Cameron can calm things down he’ll have done well.

        That won’t happen soon with the Hunt fiasco and impression it gives that
        the Tories are afraid to take on a media mogul whose organisation will
        break the law without sanctions being applied and then set private
        investigators on anyone looking into their case.

        • treborc1

          It will be an interesting year.

  • AlanGiles

    1755 BBC2 Professor John Curtice reports that given the delay in the count (there was a power cut at Alexandra Palace this morning) and that many of the areas more likely to support KL being delayed being counted “it is not impossible that KL could have a slight lead on the first preference votes, and the second preference votes become more critical”

    • treborc1

       1755 god that’s a long time I did not know they had the BBC then.

  • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

    “I know we have more work to do to show we can change our country so that it works [... ] for everybody rather than just a few at the top.”

    The “for everybody” part of this is much better than the tired and slightly nonsensical “hard-working families”.

    We done Ed. We’re on our way!

  • http://twitter.com/gonzozzz dave stone

    “I know we have more work to do to show we can change our country so that it works [... ] for everybody rather than just a few at the top.”

    The “for everybody” part of this is much better than the tired and slightly nonsensical “hard-working families”.

    We done Ed. We’re on our way!

    • treborc1

      Well I will not hold my breath, not with parties having cross party conferences over Welfare.

  • Dave Postles
  • Foreign Policy Specialist

    The Victorian Values of the poor, are still only Edwardian, in the poor’s chances of becoming wealthy with the Collision Government. Don’t let the Coalition finish the job. 

    With this in mind I see the Labour parties victory as a bitter disappointment when I remember how badly the UK needs a real government for opportunity for all of the Country.

    • treborc1

       I do not want to be rich if I was rich I suspect I’d still have the same problem, so all I want is enough to live a decent life as do I suspect the majority of people

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