Labour’s policy review needs to win the generation game

August 19, 2012 11:58 am

Author:

Share this Article

The unfair settlement between generations in Britain is an open wound at the heart of society.  At the next election Labour will need to set out how it can fairly fix a system that is loaded towards an older generation. There may be some willingness from the public to at least contemplate a change of direction with a staggering 93% of voters in the UK thinking that future generations will be worse off. Jon Cruddas’ policy review needs to develop a Labour solution to this. After all, everyone cares about the future of their children. Indeed, generational issues thread through the three central pillars of his policy review: economics, society and politics.

There are a number of major areas where this is a problem and they are well written about in books such as The Jilted Generation and The Pinch. A good example of how deeply ingrained these issues are appears in the housing market. The baby boomer generation had a huge stock of common wealth built up in council housing. A large part of this has evaporated with right to buy. The wealth released from this policy was simply used up at the the time leaving a huge shortage of social housing. Even in the private market the younger generation is being squeezed. Property developments are skewed towards certain segments of the market – in particular towards buy to let. This is largely because it suits the best buyers around, an older generation that has already benefited from a relatively benign property market. A younger generation sees the cost of rent rise along with the average age for first time buyers.

This just scratches the surface. The younger generation is also being left with heavy environmental and debt burdens as well as bleak employment prospects. The difficulty to finding a solution is that people who have benefited from this situation will need to shoulder some of the burden of solving it. Is this politically impossible? Massive wide ranging reforms possibly are. Nonetheless, straight forward policies such as the reintroduction of MIRAS (Mortgage Interest Relief at source) for first time buyers or building more council houses could receive better acceptance from the electorate if framed as an equitable settlement between generations.

Labour needs to approach this in a way that is meaningful to voters. The Tories have proved that they do not mean it when they say “We’re All In This Together”. It is a phrase that is beyond rescuing and selling t-shirts featuring it isn’t going help. The latest wheeze of some of the best and brightest on the right is to decry baby boomers and British workers as lazy. This is something Labour needs to avoid. We need to develop a positive vision of generational equity that most people can live with and accept, not the sniping and stale sloganeering that the Tories have on offer.

Ed Miliband is heading in the right direction with talk about the ‘British promise’ but the party’s policy review needs to face this challenge head on. Generational issues are going to frame the way people think about life and politics in the years of constrained resources to come. Labour can take a lead in this debate and shape it. A generational ‘grand bargain’ should form a part of whatever the policy review produces. We need to show that a Labour government will leave coming generations in a better position than the ones that have come before. This may sound obvious but it is something the Tories are failing to do. The opportunity is there for Labour and the party needs to take it.

  • TomFairfax

    Strange how currently policies are targeted at those most likely to vote. Young people will only gain an equitable voice if they vote. The Australian solution might be the one to copy. But clearly that’s likely to face resistance from those that benefit most from the status quo and actually vote.

    I’ll give you a clue. Avoid trite slogans like ‘generational grand bargain’ which will strike the average voter as BS and go for the core issue, policies suiting those who vote, because that provides a long term solution that doesn’t require constant tinkering.

    • treborc

       You mean like a slogan which goes ” we are the party of the squeezed middle oh yes and the poor”

      • TomFairfax

        Cutting. And that’s the route I’d expect the politicians to take, because they are, let’s face it, a bit woolly in their thinking, and incredibly short term thinkers. So, yes, you’ve encapsulated current Labour policy very well.

        Actually I was thinking that policies favour the retired because they are much more likely to vote, and there are rather a lot of them.

        First step is to get each voter an equal say, and that means, as in Oz, a legal requirement to actually to mark a ballot paper.

        When that happens, then the excuse some group is under represented goes, and the Tories won’t be able to jerrymander the constituencies to reduce the size of ones in poorer areas on the grounds that their inhabitants are less likely to vote, so they don’t need to pay them any attention.

        Currently it’s in the interests of TweedleDee Tories to atack those least likely to vote in favour of their supporters, and the Tweedle Dum PLP to use some parts of society failure to participate as an organised block as an excuse to show how touchy feely and caring they are when they’ve had so long to do something to rectify the issue permanently.

        In short the status quo clearly suits both, but it only helps those who collectively shout the loudest and therefore the PLP should be ashamed they didn’t do something when they could, and at least propose they’ll do something about it now, because that would really help those who currently do worst, because they’ve decided not to participate ‘because all politicians are the same’ and don’t bother.

        It’s not a panacea, but it would kill the ‘group X who don’t have a voice because they don’t vote’ argument stone dead.

        The intolerance of the majority concerning minorities and their views would still exist.

        • treborc

          Pensioners  only grew up when Blair stated they were only worth 75p rise and then labour spent the next five years trying to get over it.

          Now we are hearing labour would stop some of the benefits like Attendance allowance for people who retired disabled, without even understanding that if your disabled  before your retired you get DLA.

          I do think people young and old will think well yes the Tories stink, sadly labours no better.

          Is it worth  going down to the polling both, and I suspect most will say no young and old.

          But we will see what Cruddas has to say, if he lasts that long.

  • Bree

    Being part of the Baby Boomer generation-who did not engineer an advantage during the boom years,even if they benefited from it and who mostly are not ‘sitting pretty’ on private/company pensions and object fiercly to being told to downsize to free up bedrooms[does this apply to all over 60's--like Camerons in laws who have a mansion-maybe they will turn it into a homeless refuge]–I am appalled at these generational attacks on the elderly. The key to this is in the words ‘old’ and ‘young’.The ‘young’ have a future.Goodtimes will return.The ‘old’ have to maintain a living/existance as thier situation will not improve and probably worsen. If you want to target a group who have a creamed off the top–try the bankers or obscenly rich. The young relativly poor targeting the old relativly poor plays to the Tory divide and rule policy of rule. Stop whining and and looking for scapegoats.

    • DaveCitizen

      Well said Bree – targeting that relatively small but still significant group that have taken and continue to take vastly more out than the great bulk of the population is crucial.

      Labour will be a failure regardless of any success in gaining power, if we do not present coherent policies for actually doing this (as opposed to sounding like we want to in theory but not having the guts or resolve to follow through with policies thatcould lead to meaningful change).

      Those policies must address concentrations of land and property ownership that inflate rents to workers and SME business. (e.g. through rent capping, allowing Councils to build, allocating excess housing land through planning or whatever!!)

      They must also address our scandalous inequality of opportunity due to wealth affecting children’s education opps due to school facilities, class sizes etc, which distort our society in ways that cannot be undone down the line. 

  • Alan Giles

    Well done, Mr Clarke. If you go on thinking that way you will make sure you don’t win the next election, or only get another hung Parliament.

    I am an oldster myself, but luckilly, I am comfortable, so this isn’t me thinking about myself, but there are a great number of older people who have trouble each year paying energy bills, and they are set to rise again this autumn. Prices continue to go up in the supermarkets,  and we hear each year from Age Concern that many elderly people have to choose between eating and heating.and what do you suggest doing?. Hit the very people who are more likely to vote. Let’s be frank about it, not all younger people are like you and interested in politics. They don’t watch or listen to political programmes. Ken said he would reintroduce the ESA in London – but I don’t think this bought younger voters out to vote  even though Johnson completely rejected the idea.

    It is about time Labour came up with some new original ideas, not just rejigging policies that have been knocking about for years, some taken over by the coalition, and some that some of you will no doubt just want to tinker with if/when you return to office.

    “like the Tories – only nicer” is not a winning slogan or stance.

    The enviromental problems for the future, BTW deserve an article by itself. Sadly the human animal has been depleting the natural resources for an aeon, and while we can certainly educate those coming along now, But everyone young and old are paying the enviromental price now – it is hardly fair to expect one section of society to foot the bill

     

    • treborc

        would reintroduce the ESA in London -  I think that was EMA.

      But the young simple do not believe Labour or the Tories, and who can blame them after Blair, Brown Cameron and now Miliband.

      • Alan Giles

         Yes sorry, EMA. I’m sitting in my garden and the sun was on the screen (well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it :-)

    • ThePurpleBooker

      Well Clarke and others are following this appraoch and we are on route to gaining a three figure majority. I know in your fantasy world, everyone is a leftwinger and if anyone is a thousandth of a nanometre to the right of Tony Benn they instantly are a Tory but that is not the case.  I know you may not achieved all you want in your life (hardly surprising) but attacking future generations is just plain wicked and stupid. I’m glad you are not in the party.

      • Alan Giles

         It’s “wicked and stupid” to accuse somebody of being a “pedophile” (sic) but that didn’t stop you doing so to me last week. Something you have never apologised for.

        I didn’t say Mr Clarke was “a Tory”. Play another record. Or just run along and play.

        • Brumanuensis

          It’s my fault Alan. I had wondered where PurpleBooker had got to and lo-and- behold, he reappears.

          • Alan Giles

             I automatically thought he was up at the Edinburgh Fringe, doing his “hilarious” stand-up routine, with the audience riveted to their seats (that would be the only way he could keep them in the theatre)

          • Brumanuensis

            Funnily enough, I was in Edinburgh last week and spent a day going round the Fringe.

            Maybe we crossed paths without knowing it…

          • ThePurpleBooker

            I was not in Edinburgh but campaigning in Norwich.

          • Brumanuensis

            Impressive, but campaigning for what?

          • treborc

             The liberals

          • Brumanuensis

            Jo Rust more likely.

          • ThePurpleBooker

            Actually it was Labour doorstep for their PCC candidate.

          • Brumanuensis

            Ah, Clive Lewis. Excellent guy. Glad to hear about it.

        • ThePurpleBooker

          If I have offended you (or should I say touched a raw nerve) then I apologise.
          On Mr Clarke, I did not once say that you said he was a Tory. In all honesty I suggest that you actually read the comments, and don’t let your imagination run wild as it often does. But you have implied that those who are taking a realistic attitude to policy are Tories. Not surprising seen as you want us to lose the next election. So glad you have buggered off!

          • Alan Giles

             ”  If I have offended you (or should I say touched a raw nerve) then I apologise.”I am warning you now, if you ever make an allegation of criminal activity about and against me again, I will take action against you.Your foul accusation last week ( for it is this I suspect you are offering this glib and graceless apology) went beyond your usual level of personal abuse, and if Mark Ferguson isn’t prepared to bring you to heel, then we will have to leave it to the Metropolitan Police, and they would have the authority, if necessary, to obtain your details. As I use my real identity on LL (which can be verified) your accusation could cause me great personal embarrassment and if the allegation were to be repeated, I would have no option other than to seek my  remedies in law to clear my name.Making anonymous and untrue allegations of that gravity is a criminal offence, and the fact that you did it in the way you did, is the same as writing anonymous letters: just because you wish to be anonymous doesn’t mean to say action cannot be taken if and when your identity is discovered.Perhaps Mr Ferguson pities you; I don’t.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

            Its about time that everyone used their real names, verifiable, or no right to post

          • Alan Giles

             I agree Mike, but I can understand why somebody like Braumenusis, and Jaime, for professional reasons, might not wish to give their full names.

            I have to say that most people don’t abuse a screen name by posting foul person abuse as does the Daft Booker, and I think it disgraceful that Ferguson doesn’t put him into pre-moderation. He might then think twice before writing some of what he does write, and he wouldn’t get the instant gratification of seeing his abuse the second he has written it.

          • Brumanuensis

            As Alan says, I would do, but for professional reasons I prefer not to.

          • ThePurpleBooker

            And I am quaking in my boots. People have had enough of your sanctimonious, self-righteous and hypocritical behaviour. Some have stopped posting on this website and others are really unhappy. This is not The Alan Giles Show and you have been bullying me and others on this website for a very long time, Alan. You have nothing better to do with your life. Now I am very sorry if I have upset you but technically suspecting someone is a pedophile and using not only times but also a range of indicative comments is not a crime. Wasting police time is a crime, Alan. However, accusing Gordon Brown, James Purnell, Kitty Ussher, Yvette Cooper, Lord Freud, IDS and David Cameron of murder is contemptuous and also a criminal offence. Perhaps, I should report that. Also, identity theft which you have done by using the names and parliamentary e-mail addresses of Liam Byrne on this website and also using my name to post comments raging from rather jocular to damn right offensive is too a criminal offence. Perhaps, the Metropolitan Police would like to know about that (or should I say in your case: Mersyside Police). What is your real name because not only have you tell criticised Brumaneusis for writing on this site but you have also used a fake name yourself ‘Marlowe’. There is no limits to your incredulity, there really isn’t. I pity you in all honesty. You are an Internet troll masquerading as someone else spending all day and all night on LabourList and you are not even a party member. That’s quite sad, don’t you think?

          • Alan Giles

             Perhaps you were not yourself when you made the original post. Rest assured I still have a copy of exactly what you wrote (as does Mark Ferguson) and I can assure you I would cause you as much grief as I had to if you were to dare repeat it.

            I never accused your pals of “murder” nor have I misused your ID or anyone elses.

            For some reason Disqus had trouble with my original posting address and I use an ex business one which Disqus seems to prefer.

            I tell you what I think is sad, and that is some half-witted fool like you making a total idiot of yourself, and the editor of this site allowing you to do so.

            I have never critisised Braumeusis for posting – it is you who uses personal abuse to him at all hours of the day and night.

            You are lower than a snakes belly and your stupidity is becoming a big unrelieved bore

          • Alan Giles

             P.S. Among your fantasies you once claimed to be “a journalist”.

            A journalist would know how to spell “Paedophile” you have now made the same spelling mistake twice.

            Hold the front page!

          • Brumanuensis

            Alan, I have a confession to make.

            I AM THE PURPLEBOOKER!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVraVgzC9U

            (manic laughter)

          • Brumanuensis

            (Ok, I’m not, but the way this going a dramatic twist must be round the corner).

          • Alan Giles

             Perhaps Mark Ferguson is “The Purple Booker”. After all, what other editor would allow somebody to make the sort of allegations PB does, against the character of people he has never seen or met, without at least issuing a warning to him?.

            At least Ken Clarke just got away with “being senile”, but one  day PB will get LL (and it’s editor) into deep trouble.

          • Brumanuensis

            He may have done. Here’s what he wrote in a recent reply to me.

            “For your safety, I urge you not to try and lecture me on the IPPR”.

            I could report him to the police for that. I may still do.

          • Alan Giles

             I used to think “Guy M” was terrible, but he was a pussycat compared to “The Book”

          • markfergusonuk

            Alan,

            I can assure you that I only post under my own name.

            I emailed you about this earlier today – did you receive it? If not could you pop me an email at mark@labourlist.org and I’ll get back to you.

          • Alan Giles

             Mark, I have resent the offending material to you

          • Spartacus

            I am ThePurpleBooker!

          • Headbanging Rightwing Moron

            I am ThePurpleBooker!

      • Alan Giles

         ”Mr Oa” I see you “liked” this comment, so I take it you endorse an anonymous idiot  going round accusing people of criminal offences of the most disgusting and serious nature?

        Nobody achieves everything they want in life, but I can look back with a feeling that I did my best, and continue to do so, and I am not so sad and sick I spend my waking hours daubing allegations of “paedophilia” against people I don’t  know, and being so weak and cowardly having to put my genuine opinions under an indterminate screen name.

        If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.

  • Amber Star

     The unfair settlement between generations in Britain is an open wound at the heart of society.  
    —————–
    Let me re-phrase that for you:

    The unfair settlement between the top 5% & the other 95% is an open wound at the heart of society.

     Most of our young people want the best for their parents & grand-parents just as much as parents want the best for their children. They are, for the most part, a lovely generation who don’t resent their elders or immigrants or people from the EU (if polling is anything to go by).

     Labour can’t avoid dealing with the gap between the wealthy & the struggling precariat by turning it into a generational war; that is a Tory tactic. Do you want Labour to be the nasty party?

     We are going to have to deal with the real issue: Labour have failed to address the culture which has placed executives, fee-takers & private shareholders above workers, pensioners & future pensioners who have invested their labour or savings in the corporations which now seem to take everything & give very little back.

    • ThePurpleBooker

      I am sorry but this is just foolish. You want the Labour Party to turn to class war and embrace an ideology of envy. Seriously, come on!
      The next generation matter considerably and the future is looking bleak for them, and your nonsentical crowing as well as the misguided actions of this joke of a Government is not helping. We need a long-term strategy. Two thirds of the pension tax relief budget is spent on higher-rate pension tax relief which could easily fund free universal childcare. We could tax pensioner benefits for those not on Pension Credit to fund a Jobs Guarantee or pay for a National Care Service. Selfishness and envy and class war is something of the past, and would be a disaster if it were to become our future.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        If you can’t see that socio-economic inequality is real and can’t be hidden or buried under so-called ‘progressive’ nonsense such as the content of the Purple Book, then you have little to add to this debate.

        No-one is calling for class war but there is social class inequality. If you don’t believe me, come up to Bootle, then drive but three miles to Blundellsands and you could be in a different world

        • ThePurpleBooker

          Of course I believe socio-economic inequality is real only a fool will deny that. However, to descend into class war and an ideology of envy is certainly not the answer and it is your comments as well as the comments of others which fuel such nastiness. Fighting the next General Election, like we fought the Crewe and Nantwich by-election is not going to solve socio-economic inequality. As for the Purple Book, do you seriously think universal social care, reforming our capitalism, extending credit unions, re-installing the contributory system, action on social mobility, free universal childcare and tackling crime by empowering victims is nonsense because if that is your view (which by the looks of it clearly is) then it is you who has nothing to add to this debate or in deed any debate about the future of the Labour Party and our country.

          • Brumanuensis

            Talking about inequality is class war?

            Well I never…

          • ThePurpleBooker

            Amber Star’s comments was class war. I think you should actually learn to read.

  • Norrin Radd

    Oh, great! Somebody from the left trying to trigger another demonisation of a minority. Aren’t irrational and unprincipled witch hunts for lead-swingers amongst categories of citizens such as the unemployed, sick, disabled, single parents – pretty much anybody claiming some kind of top-up or out of work benefit – enough to slate the disgusting blood-lust of the tabloids without gunning for the retired, elderly and pensioners as well?

    You can just imagine the tabloid headlines: “Our young pay so that the old can play.”

    And such like.

    Lovely.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

    There are certainly issues relating to the opportunities of young people, but really, rich older people have kids more likely to be rich, and I think a lot of this problem would be helped if we took socio-economic inequality more seriously

    I realise this is awfully Old Labour and means I must thus hate anyone who is aspirational, but there’s really precious little of that characteristic left amongst the realistic

    • ThePurpleBooker

      Well you do think that free universal childcare, a social insurance system (which by the way is what Kelvin Hopkins and Diane Abbott support), giving people jobs, cracking down on slum landlords, controlling rents, reversing cuts to foundation years, house building and co-operatives are all rightwing, so it is hardly surprising you are coming up with the anti-universalism guff which you so often embrace.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        I’m anything but anti-universalism, so you clearly don’t understand what I have said. Indeed, you have a very poor knowledge of social policy and the development of the welfare state, as you are still under the illusion that we have a social insurance based system, which we don’t.

        • ThePurpleBooker

          You are anti-universalism otherwise you would not have attacked ‘free universal childcare’ as rightwing and ill-thought through. It is you with the poor knowledge of the welfare state otherwise you will accept that we did introduce a social insurance system. Anyway, I believe we have moved away from a social insurance system and must return to it. You delude yourself that we never had a social insurance system because you are against social insurance. Anyway, do you still hold the view that free universal childcare, regulating slum landlords, regulating betting shops, giving people jobs, a social insurance system (which is by the way, what even Kelvin Hopkins wants), controlling rents, reversing cuts to SureStart, house building and co-operatives are all rightwing? Do you?

          • Brumanuensis

            It would help if you could quote people in order to back up what you claim they have said, PurpleBooker. Otherwise we get a ‘he said, she said’ argument.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

            I didn’t attack free universal childcare.
            We didn’t introduce a social insurance system – benefits are and have always been paid from taxation revenues and are not individually assigned. You clearly don’t understand this. Go and do an introductory social policy courseAs for being against or for social insurance, I’ve never expressed a view either way. The difficulty with introducing it now – as Frank Field was told in 1998 – is that to bring people up to a level playing field would probably require a one off tax hike of 15p in the pound. German’s system is being sorely stretched by demographic change. If we are to introduce actual social insurance with the unemployment rate we have now, then the proposals will require very thorough costing and a willingness to pay for them

    • jaime taurosangastre candelas

      …anyone who is aspirational, but there’s really precious little of that characteristic left amongst the realistic

      I think that you do your fellow citizens a great dis-service.   I believe that many millions are both realistic and aspirational.  Neither you or I are going to be able to prove our point with statistics.

      Aspiration does not have to be an aim of becoming some rich plutocrat, which is not realistic for everybody.  It could mean sending your child to university, having an “abroad” holiday once a year, or owning your own house.  Are you really saying that those are not realistic aims for millions of people?

      I can predict a Michael Foot 1983 level of result if your thinking were to prevail in Labour circles. “Don’t bother, you’ll get nothing out of life, we’ll just tax the rich (always undefined) until the last of them leaves, and then we’ll all be equally miserable and Labour principles will have won“.  The Homfray Doctrine.

      • Brumanuensis

        Mike wasn’t arguing against aspiration generically, he was suggesting that the political understanding of what aspiration means is flawed. Which is currently very much along the lines of ‘an aim of becoming some rich plutocrat’.

        • jaime taurosangastre candelas

          I would suggest that the person in the street is better able to judge for him or herself what aspiration means in their life, and whether it is achievable.  And the secret that should not mention itself in socialist miserabilist circles is that people have a pretty good idea of what they want in their own life, and don’t much want to be told what to think, or care what politicians think is best.

          • Brumanuensis

            People aren’t very good at calculating long-term utility.

            Besides, we haven’t discussed whether what they want is good. Nor whether they are well-equipped to fulfill their aspirations. All these are perfectly legitimate questions to ask when discussing whether blanket approval for ‘aspiration’ is really a good policy stance.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Brum,

            I am slightly surprised – your response seems quite doctrinaire, which I did not think you were.  Perhaps it is a matter of perspective, or of mis-communication.

            Human aspiration was explained and taught in my schooldays as firstly being fundamental to the human condition, and secondly like an onion – at the very centre are aspirations that could easily be seen as selfish, but the surrounding layers also deal with family, community, “tribal” or national aspirations.  They are different to everyone, at least in their centres, perhaps becoming more  harmonious as the layers grow outwards, although as an aside it seems to me that increasing globalisation and multiculturalism makes this less certain.

            It is not the job of a politician to tell me what I want in my inner selfish and family layers, it is their job to listen and to aggregrate across their constituencies.

            The biggest single issue I have with the harder-left generally is the tendency for some self-selected group to tell people what they should want, and to pigeon hole people, and limit their own individual creativity and flair for all sorts of things because that does not fit a pre-conceived idea.

            The one idea that does not penetrate the skull of a card-carrying rosette wearing average Labour MP on the hunt for votes is that people are fully capable of being both selfish and caring for their wider community.  That is called aspiration.  Margaret Thatcher understood that (perhaps she missed out on understanding communities built locally around a mine or a town or industry, but she certainly understood the national outer layer), as did Tony Blair, as do millions of normal people – the “white van man”, or “Mondeo Man” or “Worcester Woman”.

            So socialists telling people what to think and destroying their personal aspirations is not going to persuade I suspect tens of millions of Britons. 

            As an aside, when did proper socialism ever survive in a functioning democracy?

          • Brumanuensis

            Norway? Sweden? Finland? The UK?

            No qualms with your model of aspiration, but I’m afraid I don’t accept the idea that all aspirations are created equally. That’s my Aristotelian side coming to the fore – ‘Eudaimonia’ and ‘Arete’, etc. I believe that certain forms of The Good are preferable to others and that we should seek to reform behaviour and preferences in the interests of a better society (well, ‘better’ as I see it).

            As long as that’s done democratically, I have no problem with it. No-one is going to go round demanding that people do exactly as the State wants, but it is in the public interest to create a culture where certain forms of aspiration are regarded as less desirable than others. I’m sure you want your children to pursue careers that are ethical and make full use of their talents. If your daughter, whom I gather is a dare-devil, wants to become a racing-driver, more power to her as far as I’m concerned. If she wants to become something less savoury – God forbid - I think you’d agree you’d want to dissuade her.

            In short, aspire, but not at the unfair expense of others, nor to the detriment of your own worth or dignity.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

        Jaime: sadly, for many in this area, university and home ownership are for other people, not them.

        They are those who would be helped by concern for socio-economic equality. Trickle-down doesn’t work and never has done

  • Sal

    We don’t need MIRAS back or any other kind of help to help first time buyers. What we need is much more housing! The reason accommodation is so expensive is because demand vastly outstrips supply. If we built a lot… and I do mean a LOT!… more housing every year (private, social and council) house prices and rents would fall like a stone. 

  • Brumanuensis

    I don’t think the reintroduction of MIRAS is a good idea. Brown was right to abolish it, as it had become a ‘middle-class perk’. And whilst inter-generational equity is valuable, it’s important not to exaggerate to differences in wealth between young and old. In reality, the number of so-called ‘baby boomers’ living life on the hog at the expense of their children and grand-children is pretty minimal in the wider scheme of things.

    There is no zero-sum game requiring that improvements for the young be financed by taking from the old, nor vice versa. Rather than trying to ressussitate mass home-ownership, better rent laws would be a start. 

    • ThePurpleBooker

      What is wrong about a ‘middle-class perk’. Brown was wrong to abolish it, everyone should want to own their own homes.

      • Brumanuensis

        I do own my flat, but I have rented in the past and current rental legislation is in dire need of reform. Other than that, there is nothing inherently preferable about renting as opposed to owning, especially given that most people don’t actually ‘own’ their house until they have repaid the mortgage.

        Everyone wants security. That need not require home-ownership. And frankly, it’s wasteful to spend money on propping up a property-bubble.

  • John Dore

    What we really need are policies today.

    • J R R Hartley

      And jam tomorrow.

  • jaime taurosangastre candelas

    Housing is certainly an issue, and much could be done around planning laws to make it easier to build new houses, and so to reduce the over-demand / under-supply at a national level (but people will need to move, especially out of cities where there is little space).

    There seems to me to be a much bigger issue.  Incrementally, year by year (1-2% annually) we expand the generosity of our state provision, and yet do not look much to 20-50 years hence, when population changes will lead to every aspect of our welfare state being in total crisis:  literally unaffordable.  A vast cohort of pensioners living ever longer and more expensively to the state, and proportionately a smaller workforce supporting them with taxes paid as current receipts.  

    If only our welfare system had not been subverted from being a safety net to become a Ponzi scheme.  And we all know what happens with Ponzi schemes.

    • Brumanuensis

      Jaime, that only works if you assume productivity remains flat. Increases in productivity and some fiscal adjustments can more than compensate for our ageing population.

      The use of Worker – Retiree ratios is not a useful statistic. In 1960, the US had a 5:1 ratio; now it has a 3:1 ratio. Is the average American worse off than in 1960? I’d argue not, on the whole. Are we starving to death because the proportion of agricultural labourers and farmers to the general population has plummeted since the 18th century? No, because technology has raised yields to the point where we can feed many times more people than was possible using 18th century methods. You yourself have noted that using the number of hours worked in a country is a fallible measurement, because it does not take into account productivity per head. But this is exactly the case here!

      A note on Ponzi schemes: they are deliberately designed to be curtailed. The British State is, for all intents and purposes, immortal. If we applied your principles to the economy, all banks and large corporations would have to be considered insolvent, because their potential liabilities massively exceed their ability to meet them.

      If every single Lloyds TSB customer went and asked to withdraw their savings – a bank run – the bank would collapse. That doesn’t mean Lloyds is insolvent. Likewise, calculating future liabilities on the basis of current output will always give misleading impressions. It’s like assessing how rich someone was in 1970, by using 2012 average wages and prices as your benchmark.

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        Brum,

        There is a sort of “arms race” in fiscal terms – those assuming as you advance that productivity increases are the missing ingredient, those like me who disbelieve that argument is tenable for the long term in the face of other counter-vailing annual increases such as proportion of pensioners, and the need for politicians to annually bribe voters with extra little “goodies”.

        Basically, your thesis requires that productivity increases each year more than costs (at a national level).  This is not certain.  Productivity like any other asset can become a bubble – it was you who warned me yesterday of the Dutch disease, a good analogy, with some easy gain (new oil and gas field yielding instant productivity).

        Even the wonderful Gordon Brown got it wrong – so out of character – with his assumption that rising financial asset prices would “guarantee” increased revenues through corporation tax, and so “baked” those forecast increases into his little predictions, and pre-spent against future revenues.  But then the dog of reality bounded up and sunk his teeth into the plan and it was punctured.

        My children are disappointed when they blow a marvellous bubble from the soap mixture and rush about in the garden, loving the colours and how easily it is moved by the wind.  And then it bursts as all bubbles do and they are disappointed, and rush back to the terrace to blow another.  And the next bubble must be blown even larger (from the same unchanging soap mixture, and therefore of the same properties in terms of longevity).  This is human nature.

        You seem very certain of the immortality of the British state, at least in terms of keeping paying ever more for its’ upkeep.  You surely do not need reminding of every nation, empire and currency that has ever existed, or looked at the reasons for demise of most of them?

        • Brumanuensis

          Yes, but the collapse of the British state is fairly unlikely possibility and in any case, if it does collape, the fate of pensions and government gilts will be the last thing on everyone’s mind.

          On productivity, a functioning economy will always deliver productivity gains which on average will outpace population growth. It is possible productivity will stagnate in some years, but it will generally be sufficient over a longer term. There’s a good chart here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/15/eurozone-crisis-greece-austerity-programme-delay) at 10.19, illustrating productivity per worker since 1970 – it also gives us a clue as to why economic output can be falling, yet employment increasing: productivity is declining. However it shows average annual increases of around 2% since 1990. Given our population increases at a much slower annual rate, we should be able to accommodate changes for the foreseeable future.

          • jaime taurosangastre candelas

            Do you really believe the Government can keep a promise to pay you a pension?  I have 25 years to retirement and make no such assumption, which is why I make my own financial arrangements and have a plan to not be in the UK at all if it gets that bad.  If things have struggled on well enough for there to still be pensions, that is like icing on the cake.

            I appreciate I may be unnaturally concerned about such matters, but look at the way things are going. People do have an assumption that things are “set in stone” in terms of what they can expect from Government. – it is uncomfortable to do the “what-if” thinking and to challenge orthodoxies.

          • Brumanuensis

            A pension, under our current PAYG system, is a form of deferred wage. Contributions under NI and general revenues are used to fund payments to current retired generations. The baton is then taken up by successive work cohorts in a continual cycle of obligations.

            There are numerous merits to this approach – including better inflation-proofing – which I won’t go into. However, yes, I do believe the government can keep that promise. Why shouldn’t it? The UK will continue to grow and experience productivity improvements. You can adjust contribution record requirements or increase taxes, but the sums we’re talking about are not vast over a period of several decades.

            I suppose the general philosophical difference here stems from our differing views on macroeconomics. I know you don’t like fiat currencies, which may influence your concern about the UK’s economic prognosis. I have no such concerns about our currency’s stability and more broadly, I feel the current system inculcates intergenerational responsibility and a sense of obligation towards those in need of support. Differences of perspective ultimately. I just feel that current concerns about worker – pensioner ratios have more than a touch of Malthusianism about them.

          • PeterBarnard

            I agree, Brumanuensis (pensions etc). Just a couple of points I’d like to add :

            (i) the key ratio is the proportion of working age people in the population ; “pensions crisis” headline writers (and vested interests in politics and finance) ignore the other class of economic dependents – children.
            ONS is predicting (2010-base) that the working-age population will be 61% of the whole in 2035, compared with 61.9% last year. This is not a seismic shift ;

            (ii) even on pensioners, ONS is predicting that between 2016 and 2035, pensioners will increase at a compound 1.17% per annum. Historically (well, post-war), gross output has increased at around 2.5% per annum and so we should be able to absorb the increase in pensioners.

          • Alexwilliamz

            I have often wondered, but don;t have the data in front of me, of whether the ‘baby boomer’  population bulge is not distorting the whole picture. When that generation dies off will many of these projections turn out to be flawed? In 20 years we may found ourselves in less of a crisis than was thought, this generation may also release many of their assets which may then enrich those beneath in ways which may surprise us all. Is it possible excusing the rather blunt expression that rather than a generational war, we have just got ourselves a generational log jam, caused by the two world wars and then the subsequent long period of peace (in terms of loss of life etc)?

        • PeterBarnard

          Jaime,

          By definition, productivity reduces costs because it means that for a given level of inputs (land, labour and capital), x% more is produced (usually a small %, say 2 – 3% annually), but over time, a 2% per annum increase in output will double output in about 35 years, while a 3% per annum increase in output will double output in about 24 years (rough rule : divide annual % into 70 to give the years required to double output – or your money, if you like, in an interest-bearing account).

          What this means in practical terms is that an ordinary working bloke had to work for 37 weeks to buy a Mini when it was first introduced in 1959 ; he now has to work for only 26 weeks to buy today’s Mini – and today’s Mini is a far superior piece of equipment. In like for like terms, you are possibly looking at (say) 20 weeks. However, taking the 26 weeks, that means that the owb has 11 weeks’ wages to buy other goods and services and so the real cost (which is “how long do I have to work to buy this product?”) of both the Mini and the other stuff has reduced.

          Since the advent of the Industrial Revolution in the late 18C, we have seen – in the long term – rising productivity in the mature western democracies. Now, whether this will continue for the next two hundred years in our “post-industrial” democracies is something that no-one can say for certain (i) “past performance is no indication of future performance,” and (ii) “prediction is difficult, especially when you are talking about the future.”

          However, if productivity stagnates in the mature western democracies for the foreseeable future, well, the future will indeed be grim.

          Finally, there is no such thing as a “productivity bubble.”

      • Quiet_Sceptic

        There’s a catch though isn’t there?

        There’s other groups looking to capture their share of these productivity gains – workers through higher pay, capitalist through profits, asset owners through rents.

        Sure government will get some natural uplift in tax revenues but aren’t we really talking about increasing taxes to capture more of the productivity gain? In which case you hit the issue that people tend to have a limited tolerance for the proportion of their income they are will to pay in tax.

        Alongside this you’ve got an expectation that public services and entitlements will keep pace with the rest of society. So minimum socially acceptable retirement incomes will track, to some extent, rising productivity and wages. Expectations for healthcare will rise with technological advancements.

        Even with a static dependency ratio, the costs to the state will rise and eat up some of those productivity gains. Today’s luxuries will be tomorrow’s necessities, even for those living on the state pension.

        • Brumanuensis

          This has always been the case. I don’t see how it affects the broad sustainability of social security. I never intended my post to suggest there wouldn’t be allocation issues over productivity gains, but on the whole productivity should outpace population growth.

          The issue of costs does not go away if the state stops funding welfare. People will still have the same costs – in many cases greater than before – associated with ageing and ill-health. So if the welfare state becomes ‘unaffordable’ as Jaime claims, it will mean that society will become incapable of meeting the demands placed upon it, either through public or private means.

          • PeterBarnard

            Indeed, Brumanuensis, “The issue of costs does not go away if the state stops funding welfare.”

            Clement Attlee on the National Insurance Bill, February 1946 :

            “The question is asked – Can we afford it? Supposing the answer is ‘No?’ What does that mean? It really means that the sum total of goods produced and the services rendered by the people of this country is not sufficient to provide for all of our people at all times, in sickness, in health, in youth and in age, the very modest standard of life that is represented by the sums of money set out in the Second Schedule to this Bill.

            I cannot believe that our national productivity is so slow, that our willingness to work is so feeble or that we can submit to the world that the masses of our people must be condemned to penury.

            After all, this is really the payment into a pool of contributions from employers and workers and the products of taxation, and the payment thereout of benefits to various categories of persons. It is a method of distributing purchasing power, and the only validity for the claim that we cannot afford it must rest on there not being enough in the pool, or on the claim that some sections of society have a priority to take out so much that others must suffer want.

            I am not prepared to admit either of these propositions …. ”

            Unfortunately, he did not anticipate Margaret Hilda Thatcher (and her acolytes in the Conservative Party 2012) who are absolutely wedded to the ideology that ” …some sections of society have a priority …”

          • Brumanuensis

            Thank you Peter. Clem said it best, as always.

          • PeterBarnard

            Yes, Brumanuensis (“Clem said it best”). I was going to add “From His Master’s Voice,” or something similar, but forgot.

            He was - simply and truly - a great man and the British people, even in 2012, have much to thank him (and the 1945-51 Labour government) for, in so many ways.

            Kenneth Harris’ biography of Clem is definitely a favourite book of mine  …

          • Brumanuensis

            Watching this video, Peter, I feel desperately sad. How many Labour politicians would be prepared to argue the point the end narrator made? Not many now.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvNNiOXHhdE

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Why exactly do we have a policy of keeping people alive for longer and longer, whilst being unable to do anything to improve the quality of their lives in these years? The growth of so-called lifestyle diseases may prove to be a benefit if it stops this increase. Personally, I’ve already put my money by for Dignitas. No way do I want to become old, decrepit and unwanted

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        Mike,

        for once I am in near total agreement with you (not sure about “lifestyle diseases”, as I don’t know what you mean and let’s not spoil any agreement by me guessing about what you mean, and finding ourselves as normal on opposite sides).

        One – among perhaps a dozen – of the great unanswered questions of our generation is the total failure of politicians, all parties and the Ministry of Justice to offer guidance on “assisted suicide”, or the right if such it is for sane and compos mentis individuals to decide on the dignity of their own inevitable death.  There was an example recently for two men in being refused legal permission to choose the manner of their deaths while they suffer “locked in syndrome”.  This is truly tragic.

        I listened to the BBC Today R4 report, with an expert from both sides of the debate.  Rarely have I been so angry as with the pro-enforced “life” views of the charity campaigner for the status quo.

        I have told my wife that in the same way we put down her beloved but ancient and slowly dying dog that if ever I am in that situation, she should put me down.  I would not want to suffer.  As she’s a vet and quite often euthanises horses, she’ll have enough chemicals and know how, but I would not want her to face legal accusations.  She could even do it tonight to me in my sleep if she wanted to and I have irritated her in some way (you have to be on your best behaviour permanently when you sleep with an equine vet!), so to do it with my blessing does not seem too much.

  • 000a000

    The elephant in the room with regards to housing is immigration. Massive and uncontrolled immigration without house building over the last decade has driven up housing costs, and driven down wages.

    I did see Miliband beginning to admit and address this problem, but have heard little recently. Labour need to declare a halt to non-essential immigration while we implement a catch up house building programme.

    Don’t leave the immigration issue to the Daily Mail lot. Admit there is an issue and address it.

    • Brumanuensis

      On wages: http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/09/27/labour-are-apologising-for-their-record-on-immigration-in-office-they-are-wrong-to-do-so/

      Housing costs are harder to extrapolate, but immigration has had almost no effect on council house allocation, so I remain sceptical that the housing market’s main driver has been immigration – which is not ‘uncontrolled’, in any case. 

      • jaime taurosangastre candelas

        Whether or not it is immigration, there is an under-supply of houses in the UK, which drives up prices.  Add together societal factors (increased longevity, more people living in unconventional arrangements, possibly immigration, and an slightly increasing concentration of ownership in the hands of buy-to-let landlords who have a profit motive) and it is predictable that both rents and prices will rise faster than annual wages unless “something” is done.

        It is very easy to declare that planning laws must change and more houses should be built, but there are some uncomfortable details for Labour behind that.  The tories will not mind if there are 5,000 new houses in Newcastle and 5,000 needing homes in London – they will invite the Londoners to get on their bikes while telling them how wonderful Newcastle is.  But for Labour, how do you deal with 5,000 Londoners needing homes and there being no affordable building land in London?  It is Labour’s policy to try to keep people in their communities and to not break those bonds. But yet, this costs money that the tories do not have to promise, because they look nationally, and from where does the money come? There is no realistic answer.

        • derek

          Why not build floating homes on the river Thames, like they do in Holland.   

          • Alan Giles

             There are some house boats, Derek, most famously on the Regents Canal at Maida Vale

          • derek

            Than@Alan, seems when it comes to city housing policy they never push the boat out.We’re hearing today that they want to sell off 30,000 homes to the private sector then build social housing on the outer doughnut areas.I’d like to think that London would think twice about selling any development area to the private commercial side.Does London really need more football stadiums as opposed to more homes?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

            I think it is a shame this topic has not been raised in an article on LL yet, and I fear this reflects the lack of an agreed “coordinated response” from the party.

            It certainly merits discussion, as it is not a monochromatic issue.

          • treborc

            Submarines then you can hide tenants as well.

          • derek

            LoL! Treborc, probably a cheaper option.

        • Brumanuensis

          I agree with most of that, but I think the point about London is that existing communities have undercapacity for their own population growth, meaning that pro-community policies are not antithetical to house-building. There is a fair amount of brownfield land lying around in the UK and it can be put to productive use. The main problem is that high-density housing is comparatively rare, unlike in other European countries, and suburban sprawl is used to compensate.

          This leaves aside my views on housing benefit changes (probably a good idea, as they’re laden with expletives).

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

            Look at Berlin, for example, where living in a flat is the norm – and renting, too

          • Brumanuensis

            The big problem the UK has is that renting has been seen, since the Housing Act 1988, as a stop-gap before you ‘get on the property ladder’. This means, unlike on the continent, security of tenure is weak and short-term tenancies are routine. No wonder families don’t want to run the risk of having to leave at fairly short notice. If we reformed the rent laws so that people started to see renting as a viable long-term option and not second-best to home-ownership, then we’d have a much more stable and affordable housing market, as well as greater support for social housing and house building.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

            Agreed. Perhaps now this has become inevitable, politicians may give it some attention

          • Alexwilliamz

            Hasn’t worked with the issue of elderly care, so keep waiting maybe.

          • Alexwilliamz

            But also building a decent stock of council housing to counterbalance rent inflation, might also help to keep rents ‘honest’. At the moment people have no choice but pay whatever is demanded and it is those at the bottom (lower earners but unlikely to be at the top of any councils housing list) who suffer.

          • Alexwilliamz

            A very good point. Maybe we can turn the property squeeze on the young to foster a culture of high density high quality community living. I think there has been a reaction to the disasterous high density flats of the sixties and seventies which it is hard to turn around. The problem was not necessarily the idea but its execution, there were some excellent examples and developments, but the rash of poorly built and more importantly poorly run developments mean that they are often viewed very negatively in this country.

      • treborc

         That’s only true because we have no houses to give, but immigration as such from the EU has made a difference, my council has owned up  to having no choice but to house people from Poland who come here  with extra needs, more children, sick or disabled children or even babies.

        They seem to be able to find these people homes while leaving long term British families in bed and breakfast, no immigrants in my area seem to have contacts from local landlords who tend to be Asian tend to charge the largest rents and give people homes in areas which are now mainly Asian

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

      Actually, it isn’t. There is no single reason but amongst them include: the overheated nature of the south-east economy and lack of regional development – there are perfectly decent houses going begging in many Lancashire towns, but no jobs. Also the change of household structure with much greater diversity of requirements and more households given the increased divorce rate. Third is simply that no social housing has been built , certainly not enough to keep up with that sold off

      • ThePurpleBooker

        You are saying that uncontrolled immigration from Eastern Europe had no effect because it did.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Homfray/510980099 Mike Homfray

          You mean the policy of Tony Blair and the last Labour government? I think it had little effect on social housing allocations, but could well have helped to increase the cost of the private rented sector in some areas

          • ThePurpleBooker

            Yes the policy of the last Labour government. I admit we made a mistake on not controlling immigration from Eastern Europe. If I remember correctly, Tony Blair disciplined Charles Clarke on this issue (to the pleasure of Gordon Brown) and has admitted since we got it wrong. And he’s right, we got it wrong.
            Immigration is a great thing because it brings economic benefits, social benefits and cultural benefits. However, uncontrolled immigration from Eastern Europe did have alot of negatives like the effect on wages from those on low incomes, housing waiting lists and also the pressure it put on services. Frank Field did a non-partisan report on the effect on housing, and we should all look at it.

    • ThePurpleBooker

      I agree.

  • AnotherOldBoy

    Mr Clarke is quite right to point to the massive growth in government debt as a burden on future generations.   That is why the present government is doing what has to be done to bring borrowing back under control.

    The young today should learn the lesson of the last 10 years: a country which lives above its means, creating an artificial boom, will have to pay eventually.  We are now paying the price for Mr Blair and Mr Brown’s economic miracle.  Don’t let their sidekicks, Messrs Milband and Balls, have another try!

  • Heart Of Oak

    The richest 1,000 people in the UK, who make up only 0.003% of the population, have made £155bn extra over the past three years, in the depths of the worst recession in 100 years. If these individuals paid off the nation’s entire deficit, as is, they’d still have £30bn left to lavish on themselves. 

    This elite group’s combined wealth is the highest in history, i.e., a mere 1,000 individuals own £413bn between them, i.e., more than a third of Britain’s GDP.

    Their increase in wealth has been £315bn over the past 15 years. Capital gains tax on this at the current 28% rate would yield £88bn, i.e., 70% of the entire deficit! And yet it’s the poor and the struggling who are actually being soaked with 77% of the budget deficit being clawed back by the double whammy of public spending AND benefit cuts;  only 23% is pencilled in to be raised from tax increases and half of that is from VAT, which we all pay and which hits the poorest hardest.

    Not one of the Coalition’s tax increases is aimed at the super-rich specifically. Maybe that’s an area Labour should be looking at as far as raising taxes goes rather than from the elderly’s pensions and benefits.

    Osborne repeatedly saying “We’re all in this together” is a masterpiece of sustained irony.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZPXYLRVP4XOIGGDJWAL6HUO7U4 David

      Where are you sourcing this data?  I am truly amazed, and a little bit sceptical, that 1000 people have managed to generate an “extra” £155bn in additional assets over 3 years.

  • PeterBarnard

    Thanks, Brumanuensis,

    I’ve saved it – and you are correct in your second and last sentences.

    • AlanGiles

       A marvellous piece of archive film, and that final comment is true. Those of us lucky enough to have been employed all our working lives forget how disheartening it must be to keep applying for jobs, not even receiving a rejection letter: this problem affects both the school-leaver and the woman or man over 50. Most people respond to being given a chance to show what they can do, and for somebody believing in them and giving them that chance.

      I have often said I was very lucky – I left school at 15 and was lucky enough to work with and for  some very kind people and it’s a thing I never forgot, and I was only too glad to reciprocate when I became senior enough to do so: how I would have coped with the silent rejections young people (and older)  now get, I honestly can’t imagine – I would probably have been even worse than I am today!

  • ColinAdkins

    Let us go back in time. Thatcher got elected on the basis of cutting taxation through reducing public expenditure. She was largely unsuccessful but her most successful reduction in public expenditure was to break the link between wages increases and pension increases. Many people who voted for the tax cutting agenda are now retired and demanding the restoration of the link between wages and pensions i.e. asking today’s workers to pay taxes they were not prepared to pay.

    In the early 1980s there was a big jobs shake out in industry. Pension fund surpluses were used to achieve job cuts in a relatively painless way. At the same time as funded early retirements were negotiated companies took contribution holidays. Hey presto surpluses evaporate and many schemes move into deficit underming the basis of final salary schemes for today’s workers.

    In the early 2000s public sector schemes were reformed. This resulted in the protection of existing terms for current workers at the expense of poorer terms for new entrants.

    The collective equity in public housing has been seized by the baby boomers making home ownership now unaffordable for most young adults and denying them the same opportunity to affordable social housing the boomers once had.

    The wealth of mutuals built up over decades was opportunisitically seized by the boomers in moves to ‘go to the market’ This added to the instability of the financial services sector. The boomers were also enthusiastic Sids. 

    The baby boomer is the most self-centred generation there has been and has constantly achieved the altering of spening priorities to reflect their own interest. I have every sympathy for the notion of a social contract but this cannot be sustained at the expense of one for younger citizens.  Figures show that on average older citizens have taken out more than they have paid in whilst the reverse will be true for young citizens. Figures show that wealth has moved up the age cohorts.  Is it any surprise that Saga tours is a flourishing company?

    At 53 I am too old to start a inter-generational battle but the young need to wise up and get organised.

    • AlanGiles

       ”The baby boomer is the most self-centred generation there has been and
      has constantly achieved the altering of spening priorities to reflect
      their own interest.”

      Colin, if I may say so, I think that is a sweeping generalisation. It is true baby boomers grew up at a time when consumerism, for want of a better word, got off the ground. Probably those of us born in the 40s and 50s will be the last generations to know full employment (I honestly don’t see that happening again), disposable incomes did mean that people were buying things that our grandparents and parents would have regarded as outrageous luxuries (I remember our first 9″ Pye TV set back in 1953 was only possible because my grandad got a large staff reduction, and it was justified by them as an adjunct for the Coronation – that old set lasted for 15 years), for years afterwards my granny regretted buying the TV – she would be astonished now to learn that most people regard a TV as “a necessity” – even more so about dishwashers. When I started earning enough one of my first luxuries was a transistor radio set – for some reason it was essential to be able to listen to the radio out of doors. Even in December…

      Today it is cheaper to buy a new TV set, or anything else, because nearly everything is made with built-in obsolecense – that old 1953 TV set got a major repair I think 3 times.

      While temptations remain people will go on spending – would any of us have imagined in August 1972 that a home computer would be, more or less, an essential 40 years later?. Just think of the number of businesses who no longer produce leaflets or catalogues to send through the post, but you are welcome to download it. Luxuries eventually become essentials, it has happened throughout modern history and will continue to do so.

      But in all honesty, if the baby boomers were self-centered, I don’t see much difference in those coming along now – a 10 year old wants the most up-to-date mobile phone or s/he will feel deprived. People can no longer pick up a book they “need” a Kindle. And so on.  It was ever thus.

      I think the young people of today will have much tougher lives than the one I had for example in finding and retaining jobs, but a great number of the baby boomer generation do still contribute even in retirement by doing voluntary work and giving to charities of various sorts – as, do, of course, lots of young people. I think its a bit unfair to tar one group with the same brush. I think the great problem for the young now is that whereas in the past work was easy (easier) to find,  at least in some parts of the country, and thus money could be found for things, at least via HP, an awful lot of people are going to find themselves in greater difficulty in finding repayments in future times, when their short-term contract job ends and so on.

      I think it is consumerism, the glossy Tv advertising campaign, implying that we are inadeguate if we don’t have that new car or this new phone, the way we accept that household appliances will be plastic and shoddily made and wear out in a year or two, that has made the constant desire to acquire things part of our DNA – and this applies as much to the younger as the older.

  • Pingback: Labour’s policy review needs to win the generation game « John Clarke

Latest

  • News Cameron says no more EU-turns – Media roundup: May 22nd, 2013

    Cameron says no more EU-turns – Media roundup: May 22nd, 2013

    Subscribers to our morning email get the best of LabourList – including the Media and blog round up – every weekday morning. If you were a subscriber you would have already received this in your inbox. You can sign up here. Cameron says no more EU-turns “After one of his most difficult weeks since becoming prime minister, David Cameron put in a polished and assured peformance on the Today programme this morning. The most notable line came on Europe, with Cameron [...]

    Read more →
  • Featured Miliband is off to speak to Google – but it’s not all about tax avoidance

    Miliband is off to speak to Google – but it’s not all about tax avoidance

    Ed Miliband is speaking at the Google “Big Tent” event this morning, and as we noted earlier this week, he’s picking a bit of a fight with them over their tax affairs. Understandably, most of the press coverage in advance of Miliband’s speech (and presumably afterwards too) is about Google’s tax affairs. That’s in part due to David Cameron’s unwillingness to challenge his adviser, Google Chairman Eric Schmidt, when the two met earlier this week. The Downing Street media team [...]

    Read more →
  • News Labour MPs and Equal Marriage – analysis, and some special mentions

    Labour MPs and Equal Marriage – analysis, and some special mentions

    It was good to see the vast majority of Labour MPs voting for marriage equality yesterday, although here are some special mentions – Iain McKenzie, Frank Roy & Mike Wood - voted FOR after voting against in the 2nd reading Anne Begg, Gordon Brown, Bill Esterson, Pat Glass, Michael Meacher, Ian Mearns, Yasmin Qureshi, Virenda Sharma, Shaun Woodward - these MPs didn’t vote in the 2nd reading, but all voted FOR this evening (not all abstentions, a number were unable to attend [...]

    Read more →
  • News More evidence of that slick Downing Street media operation…

    More evidence of that slick Downing Street media operation…

    Ed Miliband is addressing Google’s Big Tent, and is expected to attack them over tax avoidance. So the slick Downing Street operation presumably want to get out ahead of that, right? Not quite. Here’s a selection of the headlines from Tuesday’s papers: ‘Stop moralising about tax avoidance, PM told’ – Guardian p.23 ‘Tougher tax rules would cost jobs, minister warns’ – Financial Times p.3 ‘Cameron avoids showdown over Google tax row’ – Times p.15 ‘No taxing questions as PM lets [...]

    Read more →
  • Comment Where are the women over 50 on our TV screens?

    Where are the women over 50 on our TV screens?

    Most people like to think that we live in a society that is fair and equal but for some it is still not equal at all. When it comes to TV presenters, women disappear when they reach over the age of 50. As part of the work of the Older Women’s Commission, I wrote to the six main UK broadcasters asking them how many older women they employ on screen and behind the camera. The figures provided by broadcasters show [...]

    Read more →