Sky WebChat with Jonathan Isaby

By Alex Smith / @alexsmith1982

I’m still trying to organise a discussion for LabourList readers to debate the key issues with readers of ConservativeHome, but for now here’s the transcript of the post-PMQs debate I did on Sky News this afternoon with one of that site’s co-editors, Jonathan Isaby. There were a few points of contention: Speaker Bercow, the Iraq inquiry and “Labour investment v Tory cuts”.

12:38: Alex Smith:
I thought PMQs today was interesting more for Bercow than the normal adversarial back and forth…

12:38: Jonathan Isaby:
My main observation from a relatively unedifying PMQs was that the new Speaker clearly is seeking to reduce the cat-calling and disorder in the chamber on the basis that “the public don’t like it”

12:39: Alex Smith:
He’s elected to represent the House, though Jonathan, not the public. I’m not sure he’s wrong, but it was a brave first intervention.

12:40 [Comment From Michael]
I still dont understand what was wrong with Michael Martin …

12:41 Alex Smith:
Well, he put his family and friends on flights to the US and elsewhere on airmiles earned through expenses and he tried to block the publication of those expenses

12:42: Jonathan Isaby:
Of course the Speaker is there to represent the House, but I think he wants to demonstrate that he understands the public anger at the reputation of Parliament etc…

12:42: Alex Smith:
Then he lost further authority by defending expense abusers, losing track of the house rules in his critical sitting in the House

12:43: Alex Smith:
Yes, and that’s important. But I think most of that improved reputation has to come from getting out there into the public, holding occasional sittings outside Westminster and actually changing how things are operated: to say what he did in his first intervention was largely symbolic

12:44: Jonathan Isaby:
I agree Alex, that Speaker Martin had to go – and for the reasons you identify, principally that he was not up to the job – and NOT becasue he was a sheet metal worker from Glasgow. In recent years we have sen several Speakers from very numble backgroudns who have ben excellent Speakers, Betty Boothroyd and George Thomas being the obvious names that spring to mind.

12:45: Jonathan Isaby:
The comments the Speaker made after PMQs were also important in that he is signalling an intention seriously to clamp down on ministers making policy announcements to the press.

12:47: Alex Smith:
Jonathan – what do you think about the inquiry? I do think much of it should be in public, but the Saville inquiry – for all the good it has done and will do it Northern Ireland – has been incredibly expensive and drawn out

12:48: [Comment From Jo]
When will Gordon Brown grow up and stop acting like a little boy…and stop talking about the 10% all the time?

12:50: Alex Smith:
Jo – the 10% line is ridiculous; it’s a ten year old argument not valid for this recession. Labour needs to say “yes, unfortunately we’re going to cut; but we have a record of investing in the most important frontline services, and we will concentrate on maintaining Sure Start, education investment and hospitals”

12:51: Alex Smith:
It’s something Sunder Katwala of the Fabians agreed with.

12:52: Jonathan Isaby:
Tend to agree about the need for the Inquiry to be public – transparency in all areas of public life is necessary right now and in the future; although the cost of the Bloody Sunday Inquiry is astronomical and am not convinced that it is money well spent at the end of the day.

12:54: Alex Smith:
A Devil’s Advocate would argue, Jonathan, that as part of the Northen Ireland peace process, the Saville inquiry is money well spent no matter what the ultimate costs!

12:55: [Comment From Jo]
You say investment in education but when you see what the schools turn out today it’s too late, they do not want to work, all they seem to do is get drunk and take drugs.

12:55: Jonathan Isaby:
On the matter of the word “investment”, Nick Clegg made point well that is has become a euphemism for “spending”.

12:56: Alex Smith:
Jo – that’s not true. I’ve worked in fantastic schools with exceptional teachers, young teachers who can relate to the students; and students whose lives have been totally turned around

12:57: Jonathan Isaby:
But could the money not do so much more good on the ground in Northern Ireland rather than feathering the nests of a small number of very well paid lawyers at taxpayers’ expense?

12:57: Alex Smith:
And Jonathan, now we’re on to politics, I have to disagree! It is not just spending when it will, in the long term, help repair our economy – it is investment, unless Thatcher’s idea that some unemployment is a price worth paying still stands, or that there is no such thing as society…?

12:57 Jonathan Isaby:
No, because they families of those killed on Bloody Sunday want truth and they want justice. Of course, too many lawyers are earning money as a result, but the inquiry is part of a wider package of – like you say – community investments and legal justice.

13:01: Jonathan Isaby:
But Alex we have seen spending in some areas increase massively – the NHS for example – and the increase in outcomes has been disproportionately very low indeed. Does that count as “investment”?

13:04: Alex Smith:
It counts as investment where it is fruitful. That’s why in the Budget, many of the cuts were administrative. The need to get more for less is well known; government administrative costs are well known; the point is to make cuts with precision, to protect the vital services such as Sure Start – which I’m unconvinced would be safe under the Tories.